Showing posts with label Outsider Test. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Outsider Test. Show all posts

Thursday, October 25, 2018

Giving the outsider test a failing mark

It's been many years since I commented on John Loftus's outsider test of faith. His position went through various permutations. The book is supposed to be the definitive version, so I was reading his book recently. A few observations:

This chapter supports my first contention–that people who are located in distinct geographical areas around the globe overwhelmingly adopt and justify a wide diversity of mutually exclusive religious faiths due to their particular upbringing and shared heritage. This is the Religious Diversity Thesis…Not only is there religious diversity, it's also clear that religions are situated around the globe in mostly distinct geographical locations. John Loftus, The Outsider Test of Faith: How to Know Which Religion is True (Prometheus Books 2013), 33,36.

i) Needless to say, that phenomenon is entirely consistent with the truth of Christianity. Both Judaism and Christianity were revealed in pagan cultures with preexisting religions. 

ii) Perhaps even more to the point, Scripture takes for granted that when sinners are left to their own devices, they will be conformed to their heathen culture. It takes God's grace to break through the social conditioning. Absent divine intervention, the phenomenon Loftus cites is exactly what the Bible predicts will be the case. 

As children we were all raised as believers. Whatever our parents told us we believed. If they said Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny existed, then we believed what they said until we were told otherwise…We don't know not to believe what our parents tell us. Ibid. 13. 

i) Really? From what I've read, kids typically figure out on their own that Santa can't exist. They puzzle over the logistical demands of the Santa mythos. They come to realize that it's a practical impossibility. But apparently Loftus needed an adult to dispel his belief in Santa. 

ii) As a young boy I once asked my mother where God came from. She said God made himself. That didn't make any sense to me. How could something that doesn't exist make itself? It has to exist in the first place to do anything.

I questioned her about that explanation years later and she admitted that she tried to give me an explanation a child's mind could grasp. Didn't work! 

As a young boy I once sat in my grandmother's kitchen. She made tea for us. She said God was everywhere. I asked her if God was in the teapot. She said yes! I didn't believe that. It made no sense to me.

My father was a teacher. Among other things, he taught classical mythology. I read the books at home. As a young boy I asked him about the relationship between God and Zeus. He offered a syncretistic explanation like Milton's Paradise Lost. I sensed that he didn't really believe that explanation. 

iii) Most religions (e.g. Hinduism, Buddhism, rabbinic Judaism) are more concerned with orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Not what you believe but what you do. 

Informed skepticism is an attitude expressed as follows: (1) it assumes one's own religious faith has the burden of proof; 

i) Both insiders and outsiders have a burden of proof.

ii) It depends on your starting-point. You should only treat all religions equally if all religions are in the same epistemic situation. But what if some religious claimants are conspicuously lacking in evidence to back up their claims-or there's damning evidence to the contrary?

iii) Should the religionist approach his religion as a blank slate? That's too abstract. Suppose one religionist has a supernatural experience while a coreligionist does not. In that event they can't approach the question with the same detachment because they don't find themselves in the same epistemic situation. They have different starting-points because their experience or lack thereof locates the starting gate at different points along the track. So you can't treat the question in a vacuum if your experience puts you in medias res. 

(2) it adopts the methodological-naturalist viewpoint by which one assumes there is a natural explanation for the origins of a given religion, its holy books, and its extraordinary claims of miracles; 

i) Loftus has his thumb on the scales. But we should only adopt methodological naturalism if metaphysical naturalism is true. Otherwise, methodological naturalism is prejudicial. Naturalism has its own burden of proof. 

ii) Moreover, it isn't possible in principle to establish religious claims even if religious claims are true by using methodological naturalism since that methodology automatically screens out supernatural explanations. So the procedure is circular. According to methodological naturalism, nothing can ever count as evidence for the supernatural. It preemptively discounts that explanation regardless of the evidence. 

iii) Some religions do have a natural explanation. However, it's not as if a Christian apologist thinks Christianity has a monopoly on supernatural origins, while all other religions must have natural origins. A Christian apologist makes allowance for the possibility that a false religion has supernatural elements. A Christian apologist doesn't suspend supernatural explanations when examining Christianity or its rivals. So there's no double standard. For instance, some people who practice witchcraft may exhibit genuine occult powers. 

(3) it demands sufficient evidence before concluding a religion is true; and most importantly, 

If a religion is true, it should be possible to provide sufficient evidence for its claims. That doesn't mean every adherent must be competent to marshal the evidence. 

(4), it disallows any faith in the religion under investigation, since the informed skeptic cannot leap over the lack of evidence by punting to faith. Ibid. 23. 

Depends on how you construe the role of faith. Much of what we believe is based on sampling reality. Samples constitute evidence that something exists or happens. 

But samples are partial, so the question is how representative the samples are. Samples form the basis of extrapolations and generalizations. Sample are direct evidence for what they sample, and that may provide prima facie justification for believing that phenomena of the same kind follow the same pattern. That's where "faith" takes over. If we have some direct evidence, that gives us reason to trust what we can't directly verify on the provisional assumption that the pattern holds for the same kind of phenomena. 

Based on many instances where air travel is safe, we conclude that it's probably safe to board our plane, although we don't know in advance if our particular flight will crash. The past track record gives us faith in the future. We have no direct evidence for the future since direct evidence for an event is retrospective. We only know for sure that it will happen after the fact. Sample instances function as a makeweight. So there's a mean between blind faith and direct evidence. And that is faith–based on evidential examples. 

Friday, January 19, 2018

Rigging the outsider test

It's been many years since I've debated John Loftus, but I recently tangled with him on Facebook:

Loftus
"A historian wants to know what happened. The apologist doesn't care what happened. He only wants to defend the Holy Book at all costs, even if it means he must sacrifice his intellect to do so."

Hays
i) An apologist for atheism doesn't care what happened. He only wants to defend his naturalism at all costs, even if it means he must sacrifice his intellect (e.g. eliminative materialism) to do so.

ii) Loftus overlooks the obvious fact that becoming a Christian apologist is sometimes the end-result of pursuing the evidence, and not the starting-point. 

iii) What about historians committed to methodological naturalism? They don't care what happened. They will defend a naturalistic explanation even if it means sacrificing the evidence.

Wednesday, February 04, 2015

Atheists Flunking The Outsider Test

I recently listened to John Loftus and David Marshall discussing Loftus' outsider test and a book Marshall wrote about it. See here and here. Near the end of the first program, Justin Brierley (the host) and Marshall discussed the growth of Christianity in China. Even though Brierley and Marshall made important points about how Christianity is growing in China and the role of miracles in that growth, Loftus ignored what they'd said and returned to discussing people who believe what their parents taught them, how unimpressive it is that Christianity has survived for so long, etc. But China isn't a Christian culture, people who convert to Christianity in China on the basis of miracles aren't just accepting what their parents or culture taught them, and Christianity isn't merely surviving in China. Loftus' response was irrelevant and evasive. In the second program, he acknowledged that he doesn't know much about Christianity in China.

Craig Keener has a lot of material on miracles and the growth of Christianity in China in his book Miracles (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Academic, 2011). I wrote several posts about his book here, including excerpts of his comments on China. Here's a post about hostile corroboration of Christian miracles, in China and elsewhere. And here's a post I wrote about Christian and non-Christian miracles witnessed by skeptics who then changed their position.

While Christianity is so large and growing, atheists remain such a small minority of the population. Atheism hasn't been doing well with outsiders.

Saturday, August 06, 2011

Calvin passes the OTF with flying colors!

What if Calvin took the OTF?


At the end of my last post, I asked a question: what would Calvin think of the OTF? It wasn't an idle question. If you are a Christian who believes in the predestination of the Elect and the Fallen world, the fact that your religion is one amongst many is not a surprise. That few have the right faith may not bother you at all. As far as I am aware, nothing about your religion says that it should not appear to an outsider as one among many. Strange then that advocates of the OTF tell you that the existence of other religions discredits your religion. You can reasonably say, "my religion looks like one of many to you? Swell, your point being? We agree about this, and it bothers me not. For chances are that you are not one of the Elect and are not destined for Salvation and understanding. That you and others do not believe as I do does not surprise me in the least; if anything, I would be surprised if outsiders readily understood the Truth and could easily aspire to it, as I understand otherwise."

http://commonplacesandcomments.blogspot.com/2011/07/christianity-as-religion-and-otf.html

Thursday, June 30, 2011

"All the world old is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer"


Confirmation bias is a funny thing. What’s funny about confirmation bias is the way the accuser misuses the accusation. The accuser typically uses the accusation one-sidedly. It’s always the other party who suffers from confirmation bias. Shame on you for being so deluded! Why can't you be objective like me!

But a one-sided application of confirmation bias is, itself, a reflection of confirmation bias.

Take the OTF. The OTF is just a thinly-disguised exercise in confirmation bias. Loftus is sure that Christians suffer from confirmation bias, but whenever Loftus has to explain and defend the OTF, he betrays his own confirmation bias in the process.

To be oblivious to your own confirmation bias is the epitome of confirmation bias. Outsiders to the Outsider Test can instantly see that. The OTF is merely the unconscious expression of atheistic confirmation bias. But since the atheist is blinded by his own bias, he is blind to the biased nature of the OTF. He lacks the critical detachment to view the Outsider Test from the perspective of an outsider to the Outsider Test.  

Piscatory barricade


Almost all of the objections to the Outsider Test for Faith (OTF) are red herrings placed in the road to sidetrack us from getting at the truth.


In that event, I wonder why the state patrol doesn’t strew the freeway with red herrings when it tries to set up a roadblock. On second thought, seems to me a driver could simply run over the red herrings and continue on his way. I mean, aren’t they pretty flat to begin with?

Or perhaps he had in mind stacking cans of red herrings. Would they be welded together to form a solid barrier?  

In my book, Why I Became an Atheist, I contrasted the insider’s perspective (IP) with the outsider’s perspective (OP), which can be explained like this: The insider believes in a particular religious sect. The outsider does not. The insider has faith. The outsider doubts. The insider makes extraordinary claims. The outsider makes no claims. The insider has a belief in search of data. The outsider looks at the data to determine the probability of a claim. The insider takes a leap of faith beyond the probabilities. The outsider doesn’t claim more than what the probabilities can show.
 
The IP represents a person who has faith. The OP represents a person who does not have faith. The IP represents faith-based reasoning. The OP represents science-based reasoning.

i) By his own admission, the OTF presupposes a hostile characterization of religion. That’s not a neutral, even-handed characterization. Rather, the OTF already prejudges religion.

And in so doing, it assumes what it needs to prove.

ii) Moreover, even in his own self-serving description, it’s not true that the outsider makes no claims. Loftus is making several substantive claims about religion to justify the OTF. 

Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Reactionaries

In light of John Loftus' latest effort to shore up the sagging fortunes of the OTF, I'm going to reproduce a recent statement by Larry Hurtado:

It’s simply the case that the overwhelming majority of scholars in biblical studies (including NT and Christian Origins) come to their studies in the context of their own personal involvement in Jewish or Christian faith.  Critical study, however, which rightfully means self-critical study requires scholars to try to avoid their own personal faith and commitments from influencing unduly their conclusions.  But it’s sometimes assumed that this is a concern solely for those who identify themselves with a religious tradition, and that those who don’t so identify themselves, or who no longer do so, are immune from what I’ve called “personal stakes”.
Indeed, occasionally scholars make much of their departure from religious faith, sometimes even making that a major subject in its own right (I mention no names, and ask any comments to avoid doing so too).  But surely a moment’s reflection should indicate that there is no really neutral ground, and that those in negative reaction against their own faith are in danger of being unduly influenced (skewed?) in their work as any apologist for a given religious stance.
Years ago I read one of the finest statements about a scholar that I’ve ever encountered.  In a letter of reference for a younger colleague, a more senior scholar said of him, “He is neither captive to his tradition nor in reaction against it.”  That would be a worthy stance for anyone to my mind.

Thursday, June 16, 2011

The Outsider Test for Faith Muse: Where Are My Royalties!?

John Loftus has turned his humble Outsider Test for Faith into a major merchandise industry that sells some of the hottest product around today (news from WSJ is that it's going public early 2012). Some of the most fashionable and beautiful people in the world are wearing OTF gear. The T-blog paparazzi team, headed by Patrick Chan, have captured these photos:



















But here's my question for our lawyer readers, since Loftus has credited me with being the creative inspiration behind developing the OTF, can I get any royalties off of the massive sales Loftus Inc. is pulling in from his OTF merchandise line? If so, I'll give you a cut if you draft a lawsuit and send it to Loftus' law team.

Sunday, June 12, 2011

John Loftus vs. Thomas Talbott

Philosopher Thomas Talbott recently criticized John Loftus' "challenge" for theists, dubbed the Outsider Test for Faith. In one of Loftus' many responses to Talbott (he's milking the critique for all it's worth), he makes this silly little claim,

"Talbott, if you want people to respect the philosophical disciplines then please, do it better than you do. You're making the rest of us look bad."

Given most of Loftus' argument against Christianity, this is ridiculous. Consider this coming from the guy who thinks it is a serious challenge to Christianity that God didn't make him with wings so that he could fly and drop poop bombs on people from 1,000 feet in the sky. Oh, no, sorry, that wasn't it; it was so he couldn't fall to his death. Or recall Loftus' claim that he'd rather be a dog in his wife's house than a human in God's world, and that he isn't shows that God isn't good. Apparently, he's unhappy that God hasn't neutered him or made him flexible enough to clean those hard to reach areas. Yes, these are the kinds of arguments Talbott should be giving. The kind atheologians should be giving. These arguments don't make atheologians look bad.

Anywho, enough of picking of Loftus—though he makes it so tempting and easy. Here I'll (again) point out a problem with Loftus outsider test (an issue I've pointed out before and hasn't been rebutted). Loftus writes,

"For Talbott or anyone else to suggest that I might possibility be wrong about an external world then all I can say is "so what?" Probability is the only thing that matters. Until he gives me a reason to think I am probably wrong then I'm not changing anything I think. "

As I've pointed out before, this makes the OTF superfluous. For example, I, like Loftus, will not take the OT for Christianity (or, in his case, for the external world) merely because of the possibility that I might be wrong. Loftus needs to show me that I am probably wrong. But if he can show that Christianity is probably wrong, there's no need, use, or purpose for and to the OTF. It's just a stupid waste of time when Loftus could use that time showing us that Christianity is probably false. But, if Loftus says that the mere fact that my belief in Christianity is at least partly due to where I was raised, and that this shows that Christianity is probably false, then (and besides the fact that it doesn't show this) the same applies, mutantis mutandis, to his belief in an external world EW.

The upshot is: If on the one hand Loftus claims that he doesn't have to take the OTEW until it is shown that his belief in the EW is "probably" false, then the OT is superfluous since once it is shown that some X is probably false, there's no need to take the OTX. On the other hand, if Loftus claims that the "accident of birth" into some culture show that the beliefs of members of that culture are "probably" false and so an OT must be taken (even though it needn't be taken, for supposedly it's already been shown that the beliefs are probably false), then Loftus' belief in an external world is "probably" false and so he needs to take the OTEW. So if Loftus wants us to take his response to Talbott seriously, then he must admit that no Christian should take his OTF until he shows that our belief is "probably" false, or he must admit that his OTF leads to OTEW, OT moral beliefs, OT western logic, OT other minds, OT science, OT etc. And if so, then Loftus is way too busy taking tests to be lecturing us about the tests we need to take. Indeed, him not taking his tests shows me I shouldn't take the ones he wants me to take.

Which horn does Loftus want to be impaled on?