Someone named “Philip Jude” showed up in the comments box of
my Mark
Shea post yesterday, and we had what he called “a mighty discussion”. He first
talked about “Wisdom/Word Christology” being “greatly anticipated in the Old
Testament”; he said “The early Church used the Wisdom/Word Christology of
Scripture to relate to the Platonism of the pagan world. This is clear and
reasonable enough, and I believe it is all Shea was driving at.”
So right away we have someone who seems to know something
that most people don’t know about, and right away we have an attempt to minimize the
disagreeable nature of Mark Shea’s motives. He also questions my motives for
challenging Shea. “Don't you think you're overdoing this a bit much?”
The conversation continued a bit, but I knew I was dealing
with “a professional” when he dropped the little quip, “Could you give me your favorite anticipations of Wisdom/Word
Christology in the Old Testament (outside Proverbs and Psalms)? Just
interested. This is one of my favorite topics. I just finished reading
Skarsaune’s ‘Incarnation: Myth or Fact.’”
Oskar Skarsaune is a Norwegian New
Testament scholar, the author of several works on early
Christianity. I’ve not read him, but I’ve seen his name in Larry Hurtado’s
work, “Lord Jesus Christ”. Hurtado noted that Skarsaune had surveyed “the
Christian use of the Old Testament in the second and third centuries”. His work
has also appeared in the theological journal Themelios,
for example. Skarsaune’s name was dropped in such a casual way that it seemed
to have been an effort to try to impress me or maybe catch me off guard.
The disingenuous nature of “Philip Jude’s” motivations became
fully clear to me, however, when I got home last night, and followed his “electron
trail”. His immediate profile link goes to a blog entitled A Heart of Flesh. There he quotes liberally from Augustine and Aquinas, as well as Charles Spurgeon and Charles Wesley.
At the bottom of some earlier posts is the signature @
Catholic Lane. A click to the link takes you to a reprint of an article by
Philip Primeau. Another click on his name takes you to an Author Archive, and at the bottom is the following attribution: “Philip
Primeau is an associate editor at Catholic Lane. He also blogs at a-heart-of-flesh.blogspot.com.
So there’s our man Philip Jude.
Normally, I don’t go out of my way to find out who anonymous
commenters are. I know folks who prefer to remain anonymous, and I respect their
privacy. But this individual clearly tried to throw me off the trail when he
said “I am particularly fascinated by Logos Christology because it piques the
philosophical (or wannabe
philosophical) dimensions of my intellect.”
He is clearly someone who has studied philosophy. The “wannabe”
comment is an example not only of false humility but of mental
reservation, which was defined in a court document as “a concept developed
and much discussed over the centuries, which permits a churchman knowingly to
convey a misleading impression to another person without being guilty of lying”.
Maybe he did this reflexively, maybe intentionally, but the effect was to try
to persuade me he was some kind of student and no real threat.
But he is a threat. A self-styled “Augustinian” (he also
posted a comment in Steve’s post Judging
God’s Morality), here is the central thrust of his message, which came far
down the comment thread:
I am catholic, by the way.
(Probably obvious by this point.) I certainly hold Scripture in high regard.
Certainly, this is not the case for all of us. Mark Shea seems like a good
enough guy to me, if a little self-righteous.
The Bible might not receive as
much attention among Catholics, but that is because we have a fuller sense of
God's activity among men. The Word did not only become Flesh and Book, but
Eucharist and Sacrament and Church, too.
We trust and love the Bible because
of the Church, which is Christ's body (Colossians 1:24), the communion of
saints (I Corinthians 12), a spiritual house of living stones (I Peter 2:5),
holy Mount Zion (Hebrews 12:22), the "pillar and ground of the truth"
(I Timothy 3:15). Christ did not bother to write down so much as a single word,
but He took the time to establish His church and bequeath it with the power to
represent Him (Matthew 10:40) and judge for Him (John 20:23).
The Bible is not enough. God’s word to man is not enough for
us. We can’t “trust and love the Bible” because it is God’s word spoken to us.
We have to “trust and love the Bible” because of the Roman Catholic Church.
Look at the method
here that he uses. It’s pure bait-and-switch.
I’ve accused Roman Catholics of being dishonest with their approach among
Protestants, and here we have a very clear, living example of that. “Philip
Jude” came here with the unspoken agenda of perhaps “reaching out” and giving
us “Prots” a taste of God’s “fuller” calling – which is something we reject, by
the way. Though Philip can show “Prots” how truly magnanimous he is – doing exactly
what Shea was talking about, “taking the best of whatever we humans come up
with and pressing it into the worship of God” – only Philip Jude is able to
present these wise “Prots”, with a wink and a nod that, even though they were
smart, talented men, they did not possess “the
fullness of the faith”.
Philip Jude is feeding us a line. He is trying to sell
Christians all that they already have, plus, throw in Rome for “fullness”.
In truth, Philip Jude, the church is Christ’s body – but Rome
is no part of that. True saints may boast of union
with Christ. We believe in the communion of saints – but we are united in
Christ, and not through some artificial structure or Roman-imposed hierarchy. The
church indeed is a spiritual house of living stones, built upon the foundation
of the apostles and prophets. The church is Mount Zion. The church preaches the
truth.
In truth, Philip Jude, Christ’s true church has all of those
things, minus the corrupt doctrines of Rome. In no wise did Christ “establish”
or “bequeath” anything in Rome to represent him. But the wolf in sheep’s
clothing would impose himself upon Christ’s sheep. It is the wolf who will,
contrary to Christ’s commands sit
himself down in a place of honor, and then fabricate
elaborate stories to try to persuade the church that he had been invited all
along. Roman Catholicism, in fact, does not offer “the fullness of the
faith”, but “the fullness of corruption”.
I don’t know if Philip Jude will come back and explain these
things here, or interact with some of the challenges we’ve presented him with, or
if he’ll go back to his own blog and write about how unreasonable some converts
might be. I guess we’ll see.
"The Bible might not receive as much attention among Catholics, but that is because we have a fuller sense of God's activity among men."
ReplyDeleteThis is pure unadulterated baloney.
The reason that the Bible does not receive as much attention among Catholics as it does among Protestants is that the Magesterium is the final arbiter of teaching in the RCC; the Bible is lesser than the Magesterium.
As a practical matter, Catholics defer to the Magesterium for just that reason. That arrangement has the effect of rendering the study of God's Word superfluous for rank and file Catholics.
Adherence to Catholic teaching and the sacraments is how Catholics are saved, studying the Bible is merely "helpful", not "crucial" in Catholicism.
John,
ReplyDeleteI really feel uncomfortable with this, but I'll respond simply to clear up some misconceptions.
1. I certainly did not (and do not) mean to be disingenuous. I just wanted to have a conversation. I am an affable and curious and talkative guy. Also, my name really is Philip Jude, so you don't need to put it in scare quotes. Heck, you even know my last name, having traced me back to Catholic Lane.
2. I am not a professional by any means, just a practicing Catholic who loves the Bible and is fascinated by philosophy and theology. The last class I took on theology was in tenth grade. I don't even have a college degree! (For many years I struggled with alcoholism and substance abuse, which complicated the whole formal education thing.) Nope, I am just a theology geek with a big appetite for books. Simple as that.
3. My question about Skarsaune was absolutely genuine: I just wanted to know if there are similar sources. No agenda.
4. Yes, I have been editing for Catholic Lane for several months. It is a part-time, unpaid position that I secured through a friend. It's my small way of giving back to the Church.
5. I wasn't trying to impress or con you. As I said, I was simply seeking an informative and lively discussion. I enjoy many Reformed writers (especially Pink and Spurgeon), as well as many Reformed bloggers (Monergism, Triablogue, and Thoughts of Francis Turretin are daily reads).
6. As for your polemical points, I will address them briefly:
ReplyDelete*** "The Bible is not enough. God’s word to man is not enough for us. We can’t “trust and love the Bible” because it is God’s word spoken to us. We have to “trust and love the Bible” because of the Roman Catholic Church." ***
The Bible is not enough, as it clearly states! That is an Islamic claim unknown to Christians prior to the Reformation. Even then, it was exclusive to the radicals, utterly rejected by the likes of Calvin and Luther.
Anyway, the adjective "Roman" (which you insist upon) is ultimately misleading. It is rather the Church Universal. That the Chair of Peter happened to end up in Rome is an accident of history. (And, as I've remarked before, I am indeed wary of certain papal claims.)
*** In truth, Philip Jude, the church is Christ’s body – but Rome is no part of that. True saints may boast of union with Christ. We believe in the communion of saints – but we are united in Christ, and not through some artificial structure or Roman-imposed hierarchy. ***
You separate Christ and His Church, but this is impossible.
Communion with Christ is communion with His Body (the Church), and vice versa.
Given this great and wonderful mystery, the Christian is bound to discern the true Church among the chaos of competing sects. From my (admittedly amateur) study of history and Scripture, I believe this to be the Catholic Church.
You insist on using the semi-pejorative term "Roman," but this is misleading: there are Byzantine Catholics, Maronite Catholics, Chaldean Catholics, Syro-Malabar Catholics, Malankarese Catholics, Coptic Catholics, Ethiopian Catholics, Syriac Catholics, and so on. Some of these rites differ significantly from Rome, undercutting the notion that communion with the papacy is truly a state of abject servility.
As for the hierarchy: Sure, all churches have hierarchies. Anyway, hierarchy was an aspect of the Church from the start, as evidenced by Acts. The episcopal structure is revealed by Scripture and confirmed by the earliest fathers.
Let me reiterate that I do harbor doubts regarding certain aspects of Catholicism (mainly the papacy). These I pray about and subject to study. I don't claim to possess all the answers.
I am sorry that I came off so poorly. It was not my desire to trick or otherwise mess with you. Are we so divided that we cannot entertain civil and constructive discussion? I pray this is not the case.
I hope I have adequately answered your questions and sufficiently addressed your arguments. I fear that many of our disputes will only be settled before the very Lord of Life. Until then, we can only strive for the Truth and treat one another with genuine charity.
Thank you for the opportunity to explain myself. God bless you!
Let me add two points:
ReplyDeleteOne of my difficulties with Catholicism is the drift (at least among pew-sitters) toward semi- or even outright Pelagianism.
See my article, "No Mean Wretch: Against the Pelagian Captivity," which was not well received.
http://catholiclane.com/against-the-new-pelagian-captivity/
Another is Mariolatry. I love the Virgin, the God-bearer, and fully honor her, but many Catholics go too far.
See my article, "Co-Redemptrix? Thinking Critically About Mary," which was also, erm, panned by the peanut gallery.
http://catholiclane.com/thinking-critically-about-mary/
As I said, I like to think I strive to be intellectually honest (not to mention honest to Scripture!). Probably this is not always the case. We're all fallen men.
Protestantism, especially classically Reformed Protestantism, has much to teach (or re-teach) the Church.
Ultimately, however, the Protestant errors are more grievous than the Catholic errors. Surely, we will not agree on this point, but at least we can agree that we are speaking frankly with one another.
In the future, feel free to e-mail me privately.
Philip Jude, Roman Catholic: "Another is Mariolatry. I love the Virgin, the God-bearer, and fully honor her, but many Catholics go too far.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, I like to think I strive to be intellectually honest (not to mention honest to Scripture!). Probably this is not always the case. We're all fallen men.
Protestantism, especially classically Reformed Protestantism, has much to teach (or re-teach) the Church."
Thanks for saying this. It's appreciated.
Hi all -- I'm at work but will respond. Philip, I got your private email and will respond.
ReplyDeleteTruth,
ReplyDeleteI don't think those sentiments are as uncommon as you imagine, even among the orthodox and traditional Catholics with whom I socialize.
One more thing: I didn't mean the term "Prot" to be offensive. I was just being playful. In retrospect, given that you do not know me very well, this might have been less than obvious.
ReplyDeleteInteresting timing: Today is the Feast of Peter's Chair.
ReplyDelete;)
Whatever your beliefs, Philip, you sound like a nice guy with an open and inquiring mind. Drop me a line if you're ever in Vienna, or in SF in the summer, and lunch is on me- and we will see if your insanity can be cured.
ReplyDeletecheers from sleety Vienna, zilch
Either place sounds better than Rhode Island in January!
ReplyDeleteI've never been to Rhode Island, but I'll take your word for it, Philip.
ReplyDelete