Do Paulbots hate our soldiers?

I’m going to quote some choice comments from this thread:

http://www.dailypaul.com/203175/wtf-marines-urinate-on-dead-bodies-they-laugh-too

(Be forewarned: contains R-rated language.)

There's a certain twisted logic to this reaction. If you accept the Noam Chomsky, Ed Said view of American foreign policy, then it’s only natural to start viewing our soldiers as imperial storm troopers. They talk about our troops as if these were mercenary Universal Soldiers.

Ironically, while they accuse our soldiers of being brainwashed, the Paulbot commenters dutifully regurgitate spoon-fed talking points. A few commenters try to reason with them–an exercise in futility. 

The question I have is whether Ron Paul is raising a generation of thankless, self-loathing Americans who despise the very men (U.S. soldiers) who put their life on the line to protect them from our enemies abroad. A generation of moral misfits who can't draw can't draw elementary ethical distinctions. A generation of losers and malcontents. I hope this isn't broadly representative of what’s in the pipeline. 

This point is never brought up...

Submitted by thedizzle on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:48.

No one ever thinks about the fact that the military lowered their standards for entrance several times over the past ten years due to low recruitment levels... Due to the unpopular wars.

Blowback, exemplified.

What grinds my gears is the

Submitted by joefromjerze on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 03:38.

What grinds my gears is the outrage that anyone would could ever consider that a member of the US military would do something like this. I can guarantee that without a doubt, someone from every branch that served in a combat role, from vietnam to the south pacific to europe, hell, prob even the civl war and the revolutionary war, pissed on someone they just killed. Its just that these idiots were stupid enough to allow themselves to be recorded doing it. When you put 19 or 20 year olds in a fucked up situation, fucked up things happen. And unlike the wars like the world wars, when, arguably, we were actually fighting something, today my fellow marines are fighting, killing, and dying for something they cant touch or feel or consider tangible in any sense of the word. They see the enemy as only someone who might try to kill them or who had just previously killed a friend of theirs. So when these misguided warriors take down the "enemy" they think of it as a great accomplishment to disrespect the enemy's slain body. This is what happens when winning wars is based on body count and not actual territory gained or lost. And that is what happens when the President starts a war without a declaration from congress.

What a Crock of Sh##

Submitted by TigerOne on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 02:58.

First:

This is coming from ABC News. It looks real, but the question should be wether it's ok that we had to kill these people...just don't pee on them?

Second I don't believe that you juano were ever a Marine. I have never in my military career heard a Marine say "I thank God every day I don't got any blood no my hands" and "these people are monsters". Who you talking about?

Your fellow Marines? Your Comrade in arms?

Whenever, we in the Military, go to war, we are there for one thing..Kill and Destroy.

They are and forever will be "Our Fellow Brothers"

Yeah, that's the one thing

Submitted by Goatmilk on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:36.

Yeah, that's the one thing you're there for - to kill and destroy. And everyone who ever saw American soldiers coming down their streets will fully agree that this is the only thing you do: kill and destroy! It's the only thing you can do, the only thing you're fond of, and the only thing you've ever been good for: kill and destroy.

Add to this some perverted fun in torturing your prisoners and spend your free time bludgeoning sheep to death:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3Dsgar...

Need some more cruelty towards humans? There you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz57nWz-zw0

And if the mood strikes you, you go killing your own women, like for example LaVena Johnson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Z_haZqh60

Your fellow sister in arms, huh?

Kill and destroy, yeah right. Being dehumanized by a war machine is nothing to be proud of.

Yea

Submitted by Chuck Finley on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 19:54.

"Dear Frederick Thank you for your nice letter but I am actually a US Marine who was.... Born to kill whereas clearly you have mistakenly me for some..." CPL Person Generation Kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK2rUVKKuKI

Your out of your mind! You

Submitted by juano510 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 03:19.

Your out of your mind! You see it's that mentality that produces such a disgusting act. It's there country man, they have a right to fight us, just like if the Chinese invaded America.

Oh the Shame

Submitted by ReconMarine1991 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 01:11.

It used to be the 90% keeping the 10% of screw ups in line. Looks like things have changed since my time.

Nothing "Brave" About American Soldiers

Submitted by Revere1776 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 01:15.

American forces in Afghanistan are fighting with the most technologically advanced weaponry the world's ever seen. They can plant a hellfire, via remote control, right through a man's chest from a control room in Nevada. At a moment's notice, they can call in multiple air strikes, guided by GPS, night vision, the whole works.

Yet STILL, we're supposed to talk about how "brave" and "honorable" they are, fighting impoverished farmers with AK-47s and homemade explosives they have to PHYSICALLY PLACE and detonate themselves, then pray they can get the hell away before all HELL is unleashed on the area.

So brotha, I think we need a SERIOUS reassessment of who the dudes with the balls really are. It certainly ain't these arrogant, pissing, assholes who act like they just took out some Soviet Special Forces or something. You took out some scary farmers in ratty clothes and small arms, who just want you to get the FUCK OUT of THEIR COUNTRY! Such brave invaders you are.

You obviously have no clue

Submitted by Chemthethriller on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 03:43.

You obviously have no clue what your talking about, I've been to Iraq and served my country. Terrorists rarely "physically place" their IEDs, they pay people to do it for them, then they blow it up on us... Oh and all that high tech shit you said, must be nice because I never saw any of that when I was there... It's not like the movies, you have an IBA and Kevlar, 210 rounds, water, and your m4... You are scared everytime you leave that base and drive on red or if need be black routes... Or when they tell you it's too dusty out for medivac so you really hope today isn't the day you lose a limb... When your sleeping and some terrorists launch rockets and motars in your living area...

Please if you've never woken up to bombs hitting near you and consistently running to a bunker then just don't assume shit...

I've never once asked to called a hero, but look how many people we have in this country and look how many actually served there country, just don't sit back and talk shit about something you haven't done...

It's not easy going to war, having all your friends and family wonder if they will see you again alive, seeing friends die, and having someone

Yeah, again, WHO's in WHO's

Submitted by Revere1776 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 21:07.

Yeah, again, WHO's in WHO's country man? And, I'm sorry, you're full of it when you say all that high tech stuff isn't used. Tell me, how many air strikes have the "enemy" been able to call in? How many armored escorts with mounted .50 cals? How many of the folks there have night vision by their bedside when their door gets bashed in at 2:30am by TROOPS WITH NIGHT VISION coming to shoot up the place, only to find they got the wrong house cuz they got "intelligence" from some farmer who had a grudge with his neighbor. How many drones they got buzzing around where they get to throw a hellfire from a secure cave location. You're a moron on top of being a liar. When YOU clear a nest of "insurgents," you get to feel a tad relieved. If THEY manage to take out a small detail, THEY know they gotta get the fuck outta there cuz you can be damn sure that place is about to get lit up by a SLEW of everything from troop reinforcements to tanks to 500lb bombs! Don't paint yourself some sort of underdog in a fight against un-uniformed peasants.

I have no sympathy for foreign occupier's fears of death when THEY'RE OCCUPIERS in an AGGRESSIVE WAR in SOMEONE ELSE'S COUNTRY that never lifted a finger against a single American their entire lives, EVER! The REAL heroes in uniform are those like Bradley Manning, who had the chance to look the other way, BUT DIDN'T and got TORTURED by his OWN gov't for more than 8 months for exposing THE TRUTH - or those who REFUSE to fight in an evil war of occupation, choosing rather to get a dishonorable discharge that follows them the rest of their lives and spend time in jail.

I don't NEED to go to war to know it's WRONG, just like I don't need to join the Mafia (a far less lethal criminal outfit) to know what THEY do is WRONG.

We're suppose to fight only

Submitted by juano510 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 23:42.

We're suppose to fight only if we're attacked. That's there country man! And Americans wonder why there hated so much through out the world. When I was out there some marines thought it was funny to feed pork chop mre's to the Iraqis! So evil. This real guys

I'm not making excuses for these guys

Submitted by NY4RP on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 23:08.

but for those of us who never served, you have to understand a few things. One of which, is that you are trained to not only kill the enemy but to dehumanize them...it makes the job much easier. It's the reason why there are no distinctive facial features on standard silhouette targets, or why bayonette dummies don't scream "ow" when you stick them.I see this behavior as a result of that mindset.

Vote down!

This dehumanization is so

Submitted by MyKillK on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 23:10.

This dehumanization is so incredibly dangerous, even more so now that unmanned drones piloted by guys thousands of miles away are being used more and more. I am terrified of the video-game army.

the lesson here.

Submitted by HVACTech on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 22:53.

is that Soldiers should never be used as policemen. they are cold blooded killers who destroy and blow things up. and that is just they way I want them to be.

if you want a "peace keeping force" then say so.

these men were trained to kill. and that is just what they did. could you kill something you had compassion for?

bring them home!

This is negative

Submitted by tog2476 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 22:37.

but it is how you become in war, how they train you to become. You have to turn from human to animal to survive. These Marines are doing what they were trained to do.

Wait, so you were seriously

Submitted by Revere1776 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 00:37.

Wait, so you were seriously trying to suggest this is all just tit-for-tat or that they somehow deserve to be butchered and pissed on IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY by a bunch of FOREIGN storm troopers WHO DON'T BELONG THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

How many times do we hear, "well, THEY chop people's heads off..." Hey, WHO's in WHO's country man? I mean seriously! Is it really so hard to get WHY these men of "honor" are getting shot at?

Exactly! Funny how they're

Submitted by Austrolib on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 01:06.

Exactly! Funny how they're terrorists now that they're fighting against foreign invaders from America but they were freedom fighters when they were fighting against foreign invaders from the Soviet Union.

That's "prolly" the same justification used by the Somalis

Submitted by bytejockey on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 22:25.

when they dragged SSG Cleveland naked through the streets of Mogadishu.

http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/u-s-marine-drag...

Thanks

Submitted by Chuck Finley on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 23:15.

I hope you feel better now. Please write, email or visit the families of those men of Honor and tell them how the Somalis were basically right in what they did.

Thank You

You really should learn the difference between justification and

Submitted by bytejockey on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 08:38.

justified, among other things.

So where does it end man? Is

Submitted by juano510 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 21:05.

So where does it end man? Is rape good too? Killing kids? We're not even suppose to be over there

I refuse to watch the video

Submitted by MarkDran on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 21:36.

You have a point so I would retract somewhat in this case. I do take offense that this was filmed. Someone should be disciplined for that. But otherwise Dead folks don't have the rights of the living and whatever the legal and moral issues are, these soldiers are living without government in a state of war. A smart person like u or I would never have gone. While the mercenary nature of Iraq was clear to me from the beginning, 10 years ago I could be convinced to go to war in Afghanistan.

What? I don't get that! It's

Submitted by juano510 on Fri, 01/13/2012 - 01:29.

What? I don't get that! It's not our country, we have no right to be over there killing innocent people. There defending there country man! You still don't see it?

If the photo was the other

Submitted by NYCMAN on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:14.

If the photo was the other way around- no one would even blink an eye and just immediately assume that Afghans are evil warlords that despise freedom.

You're INCREDIBLY STUPID,

Submitted by SirFelix on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:20.

I can't even fathom the depth of your ignorance.

19 hijackers,

15 from Saudi Arabia,

The other 4 from countries not named Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran.

You ought to read the UCMJ, and then make a comment.

Pull Your head out of your arse.

What do you know about those

Submitted by NYCMAN on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:11.

What do you know about those dead Afghanis? They are poor people from Afghanistan defending their country- yet you label them and remove their humanity and then have the insulting audacity to connect them to 9/11 when most Afghans don't even know what the hell the world trade center even is. There is a reason people call the US government the Great Satan- and it has everything to do with the lack of value for humanity. Are you so incredibly stupid as to believe everything they feed you because the propaganda tastes that good?

It is not the fact that I

Submitted by ebb on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 23:35.

It is not the fact that I wake up every day and pick out a country to hate. It is the fact that this particular country and this organization was responsible for the worst attack on American soil. I know you think that was just a flesh wound but self-interest plays a vital role in my thinking and I think it is in my self-interest to make these people regret such a decision.

I did not miss the fact that

Submitted by ebb on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:07.

I did not miss the fact that the taliban was the people hiding AQ and provided them with a home. Do you disagree with that?

Where's your proof that they

Submitted by NYCMAN on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:12.

Where's your proof that they were hiding anyone responsible for 9/11? Do you even remember what happened back in 2001? When The Talbian asked for proof of Bin Laden's connection to 9/11 and they would gladly give him up to the United States and instead they were met with bombs? Wheres your humanity?

They never said that

Submitted by MarkDran on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:56.

the Taliban should have given us AQ based on outstanding arrest warrants filed in the clinton years. Plus taliban never said they would give AQ to us. Their final (minutes before/during war) negotiating point was that they would give them to pakistan for trial if we gave them evidence ( which they already had from embassy attacks under Clinton).

Two things...

Submitted by snakepit22 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 18:15.

..1. Lets not keep trying to group all these people together. You have no idea why any individual in the military feels justified in using lethal force, so to say that you don't know if "our best and brightest" support Ron Paul, because three guys pissed on dead people? Well, thats like saying, I don't know if there are any good black people, because three of them killed some dudes.

2. Lets not keep trying to group all these people together by saying "they all hide behind the mantra of "I'm just doing what I'm ordered". I don't know anyone in my unit in Iraq who said they didn't want to kill anyone, but they would because they were ordered to. Many veterans never killed anyone. Many killed people because they believed the President when he told us Iraq had WMD's or many other reasons. Not all military folk feel justified in using lethal force simply because they are ordered.

3. I have no issue with Marines pissing on people. My issue is with our nation sending the Marines to kill people when we are not in danger her at home. The pissing on folks is really very secondary to the killing. Thats just my take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1NPJowyoU8

This makes it really tough...

Submitted by mcsd on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 17:52.

for me to continue preaching that "our best and brightest" support Ron Paul. I think I'm gonna be sick.

These kinds of soldiers are

Submitted by John Fowler on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 17:45.

the most despicable kind of human beings. Some are saying, "Don't judge." Are you serious? These "men" will kill whoever they are told to kill without asking questions. They duck behind the mantra, "We were just following orders." Were you ordered to urinate on dead human beings?

This is disgraceful and it will help Ron Paul. Thanks for the post, Juan. I am so glad to hear your penitent comments. People like you are honorable. But this? These men have no conscience, and I wouldn't identify myself with them in any way. Down with colonialism and worldwide militarism!! Down with the military-industrial complex!! Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up to the fact that . .

Submitted by anonymous1 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 17:11.

the folks in control(neocons, etc.) WANT this behavior and mindset.

Because when the soldiers come home, they can deploy them to YOUR street to help "protect" you!!

Agreed

Submitted by SemperFi on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 17:27.

Sure what these Marines did was improper--But who put them in a stressful situation that could morally callus even the best of us? Don't be so quick to judge--This is one of the moral consequences of war that chickenhawks never owe up to.

Support the troops. Cheer them on. Teach them that America is "exceptional". Put them in harms way, give them license to kill and destroy. Then expect them not to be changed or wounded mentally and emotionally. What do you expect?

How much Muslim hate rhetoric has been spewed daily by the likes of Rush, Hannity, Santorium, Ann Coulter and so on? Look at the public hate over the proposal of a Muslim mosque to be built a couple of blocks away from the 9/11 site awhile back. That's the moral equivalent of urinating on a people and a culture for revenge sake.

Cause and effect ah? I agree.

Submitted by juano510 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 19:29.

Cause and effect ah? I agree. Just like serial killers usually had abusive childhoods. I just want it to end man. I want my kids to ask me " dad what was war?"

Stop the Excuses and Rationalization.

Submitted by JoshArizona on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 14:23.

I can't believe I see people on this site of all places, trying to make excuses, rationalize, and justify these actions.

This is wrong, no matter who you are or what uniform you are wearing, it is not justifiable.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/3769328/data/us-mari...

For all the posters claiming these aren't Marines, stop lying to yourselves.

They were identified as Scout Sniper Team 4, 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines.

The Second guy from the right is holding an M40A5, The USMC is the only branch of the armed services that uses this rifle, so the Scout Sniper ID is pretty accurate.

This is what war does to human beings that participate in it.

Believe it or not, these guys were probably relatively normal before they went to Afghanistan.

Our foreign policy

Submitted by shrader on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 13:16.

produces deranged soldiers, because there's no way to put together coherently the reasons for killing.

I personally find it

Submitted by ebb on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:03.

I personally find it disgusting that so many people who claim to be libertarian recite liberal talking points. There is a huge difference between libertarian and liberal and for some reason a great deal of Ron Paul supporters echo liberal talking points and show signs of liberal thinking. Why blame the soldiers as evil. It is the same shit that was in vietnam with the hippies.

I see it on this website. It is the same authoritarian thinking that is seen in so many liberal circles. I'm glad you guys decided to embrace free-enterprise but you should go back to your own party and hang out at an OWS crowd.

It takes a real man to stand

Submitted by NYCMAN on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 20:16.

It takes a real man to stand up for his principles and refuse to kill anyone innocent. Say what you want but don't give any damn excuses for the murder of people who did nothing to you. You don't know those afghans- where is their funeral? Where is their respect? They're treated like dogs every day and you don't even blink an eye.

would be willing to bet

Submitted by anothernobody on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:35.

that you also reason and apologize when cops beat some poor kid to death or throw some old woman to the ground in her own home.

We invade their country and because they fight back these troops are justified in this foolish act. Good call. NOT!

The blame should be placed

Submitted by fiodax on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:14.

The blame should be placed upon these Marines as individuals and upon the Marine corps as an organization. Even good people who want to identify themselves as Marines but who are silent or passive in reacting to these situations, validate this behavior as acceptable and therefore are also to blame.

Any organization that has such systemic problems as to allow repeated occurrences of atrocities such as this one and the others we have seen has a fundamental problem in it's leadership and purpose.

Excuse you? Don't try to pull

Submitted by Evan42 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:45.

Excuse you?

Don't try to pull this "we" shit. I've done a lot of shit while drunk. Invading a foreign country, killing innocent people, or peeing on corpses are none of them.

Judge me for me.

Tread softly on this. I agree

Submitted by blacklab on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 11:59.

I would bet the Marines in this video believe they did nothing wrong because they are conditioned to think these people hate us because of our wealth and our prosperity, and it never crosses their minds that its things like THIS that make them hate us.

I'm going to be VERY

Submitted by White Rose on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 11:00.

I'm going to be VERY controversial.

They joined voluntarily, and they did this voluntarily. EVEN though ALL the facts are available to see.

I question the morality of anybody who would join the military to go overseas to subjugate other peoples. You are committing an immoral act by simply going to Afghanistan to support the "cause." One may be weak as a human being to resist pressure, but that NEVER relieves one of moral responsibility.

a soldier is nothing more than a fighting dog put into a pit to fight other dogs while the masters sit outside the ring; take bets, and come out big. when the dog usefulness is degraded, they shoot it.

Young boys like to break things and if you unleash them in an environment with no rules (and don't even begin to argue that war has rules. I WILL LAUGH IN YOUR FACE.)

Have you ever been in a room with a bunch of Infantry? I have and it ain't pretty. These people have been so corrupted that their very souls

You are also on the outside

Submitted by Sir Ronus Paulius on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 11:39.

You are also on the outside looking in. They have ways in the military to twist things around to get soldiers on board. We understand what is really going on but imagine yourself an 18 to 25 year old that pay no attention to the news and are fed lies by your commanders.

So you don't think in the

Submitted by Sir Ronus Paulius on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:33.

So you don't think in the world we live in today no standing army is needed? You think that China or Russia wouldn't just march right in and take the US by storm? We live in a VERY different world with technology our founders couldn't have even dreamed of. Look, You never served so don't lecture me about my service and it IS service in my opinion.

I joined before the Iraq and

Submitted by Sir Ronus Paulius on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 11:32.

I joined before the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and I joined to protect my country. When I volunteered I did it because I love my country. I was already in when all this happened and was deployed to Iraq during my enlistment. There is a lot more to it then you are making it. You are collectively condemning them all. I can tell you that not every soldier is like this and it's sad that a few bad apples could make you think this way about all soldiers. The problem is they get these kids barely out of high school and brainwash them to be killers before they are old enough to really be men who use judgement. Some end up like what we see here and some don't. I'm sure if America and your family was in real danger your tune would change about soldiers. I know that we are all mixed up these days regarding the military but you must know there are good soldiers as well. It's just all we see are knuckleheads doing crap like this because it garners the most attention. I can tell you that I served with some of the bravest men that have walked this earth and I am proud to know that there are good men in the military, they just get no attention because these days it's these stupid kids doing disgusting things that give us all a bad name!

it is not about whether one

Submitted by White Rose on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 12:04.

it is not about whether one individual soldier is good or not. The point is moral blindness that someone allows themselves to used in such a manner.

What has to be understood is that even if one kills someone in an occupation who is resisting the occupiers, it is still murder to kill him. The occupied have the moral upper-hand.

These are the type who are most dangerous

Submitted by anothernobody on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 10:31.

to our freedom and liberties. These people are no different than the government agents who smiled for pictures in front of the burning home of the Branch Davidians. These are the kind of people who would just as soon kill you if they heard you question our government or its motives. These are the ones who answer yes to the question of whether they would fire on American civilians if ordered too. They will blindly do what ever the PTB asks of them because in their demented minds they think they are patriotic.

These guys make me sick.

They say "there's no daylight"...

Submitted by mike in st. lucia on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:47.

between Israel and America. These soldiers were either trained by Israelis, or they're simply trying to emulate them.

Evil. Pure evil

Submitted by juano510 on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 04:29.

Evil. Pure evil