“The film offers a portrait of John McNeill, the Jesuit priest who was silenced in 1977 for his book The Church and the Homosexual and, nine years later, was expelled from his order for refusing to stay silent in his ministry to gay and lesbian Catholics.
“The film had its New York City premiere this weekend as part of the 40th anniversary celebration of the New York chapter of Dignity USA, a community McNeill helped found. The film includes a number of insightful interviews from fellow priest activist Dan McCarthy, theologian Mary Hunt, openly gay priest Bernard Lynch, gay rights activist Ginny Appuzzo, and the late activist Jesuit Fr. Robert Carter.
“Fay's documentary offers a full depiction of McNeill's life as well as a window into the gay struggle for liberation in both church and society amid the terrifying backdrop of the AIDS crisis. Two sections of the film are particularly powerful: McNeill's calling to the priesthood and his calling forth out of the silence imposed on him by the Vatican.
“… viewers will also find inspiration in the fact that, only 25 years after McNeill's expulsion, [Roman] Catholics are now the strongest supporters of gay and lesbian rights and same-sex marriage in the United States.”
I like that editorial decision to insert "Roman". Because, as we all know, certainly the Anglicans and Episcopalians are just so darn downcast on same sex marriage, eh? ;)
ReplyDeleteFrom the other post:
The good thing about the Presbyterians and the Anglicans is that we can step away from the liberal elements in our midst.
No, John, that's incorrect. With the Anglicans, the liberal elements have taken over - hence your "continuing Anglicanism" being a 'breakaway sect'. Which will itself likely require a breakaway sect in the future.
Sure, you can always "step away", aka, "run away and create a new church". Over and over, ad nauseum. At this point it's not stepping, it's full-blown line-dancing.
Roman Catholics like yourself are wedded to them.
First, I'm Byzantine Catholic. Second, funny thing about that article. Let's look at some quotes!
"The film offers a portrait of John McNeill, the Jesuit priest who was silenced in 1977 for his book The Church and the Homosexual and, nine years later, was expelled from his order for refusing to stay silent in his ministry to gay and lesbian Catholics."
"At the peak of the AIDS crisis in 1986, in what may have been the worst pastoral timing in the Roman Catholic Church's recent history, Cardinal Ratzinger issued the CDF's "Letter on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons." It defined homosexuality as "an objective disorder" and "a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil.""
"But viewers will also find inspiration in the fact that, only 25 years after McNeill's expulsion, Catholics are now the strongest supporters of gay and lesbian rights and same-sex marriage in the United States."
Except A) this is in direct conflict with Catholic teaching and B) once again, if 'liberality among the laity' is the standard, next to no churches (and certainly not the anglicans) are left standing.
And therein lies the difference. In the Catholic Church, the liberals are being hit with the Vatican hammer and fell out of prominence decades ago.
Among the Anglicans and Presbyterians?
The liberals won.
With the Anglicans, the liberal elements have taken over - hence your "continuing Anglicanism" being a 'breakaway sect'. Which will itself likely require a breakaway sect in the future.
DeleteIt's God's process for "the gates of hell" not prevailing against his church.
First, I'm Byzantine Catholic.
Yes, still a toady of the pope.
if 'liberality among the laity' is the standard, next to no churches (and certainly not the anglicans) are left standing.
The difference is, we are not standing with them.
Except A) this is in direct conflict with Catholic teaching
They are still "yours" -- your fussing about them doesn't negate the fact that Vatican II invited them in.
As far as "Catholic Teaching", they are encouraged by CCC 2359, and many of them can and do comfort themselves in their "loving relationships" believing they "they can and [do] gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" at the highest levels of the RCC.
It's God's process for "the gates of hell" not prevailing against his church.
DeleteSounds a lot more like "the gates of hell" repeatedly prevailing against His church, but that's okay, we can just keep making them.
Yes, still a toady of the pope.
Rrrrrrribbit.
The difference is, we are not standing with them.
Actually, you are. That's the sad thing. Steve Hays? Hays dislikes Catholics, but even he is willing to consider the Vatican cracking down on pro-abortion, gay-marriage-supporting clergy a good thing. You? You get angry and cheer for the Church's opposition, even (especially?) when that opposition is atheist, abortion supporters, and gay "rights" supporters.
They are still "yours" -- your fussing about them doesn't negate the fact that Vatican II invited them in.
Man, are you one of those guys who left the church because of arch-traditionalist SSPX-style influence? It's been a while since I ran into one of those. It'd explain a lot about you.
I love, by the way, your quote. What with it being a flat out lie, thanks to your editing.
"2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."
But remember: you support the gay marriage liberals trying to influence the Church. You are demonstrably upset that they are in the sorry position they are as far as the clergy goes, at this point. So I suppose we'll just call this a case of you editing what you wish the CCC said, eh?
By the way, the "are now the strongest supporters" line seems to be factually incorrect:
ReplyDeleteThis means, according to the same poll, that Catholics now trail only slightly the views of white mainline Protestants who show the strongest support among American Christians for same-sex marriage (54 percent) and it reveals that Catholics are far more supportive of same-sex marriage than white evangelical Protestants (74 percent of whom oppose it).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernard-schlager-phd/lets-hear-it-for-catholic_b_1590242.html
So once again, I find your "hey you know what's great? Anglicanism! At least you won't have to worry about creeping liberalism!" quote really, really funny.
Of course, last time we had this conversation, you came out as essentially cheering on the gay marriage, pro-abortion Catholics versus Rome anyway. So maybe suggesting that evangelicals consider the Anglicans ('oh but only the conservative ones') makes some sense.
Don't know if you've seen Mark "I DON'T CARE" Shea's very vocal support. He's all yours.
DeleteVery vocal support of what? C'mon John, quote him. You can't even find evidence to support your view without editing [BS and lies]. Make an attack on Mark Shea on this topic - I'd love to see how that goes down.
Delete