Monday, June 18, 2012

Clinging to a tidal sandbar




Here’s a commenter who shares Peter Enns’s low view of Scripture, but draws a more consistent conclusion:


Whether we like it or not, there is some sense of a “package deal” when it comes to the nature of the Bible and our Christian faith. If we conclude that the Pentateuch was not written by Moses (which many have), it is a hit to faith…for the one we call God-incarnate seemed to hold that false belief. If there is no historical Adam and no historical “fall”, it is a hit to faith! For Paul and others seem to have assumed as much. When we conclude that the Flood Narrative is comprised of two sources which can’t agree with one another on details (how many animals on the ark?, etc.), or that the Law is a mashup of various developing legal thoughts from Israel’s past, or that Abraham and the patriarchs may or may not have been historical figures, or that Paul (and I would argue the Gospel writers) was mistaken about the “end of the age” being near, it is a hit to faith! How much can you take away from traditional Christian assumptions and be able to stand?

For me it was all boiled down to the resurrection until I concluded that Paul, the Gospel writers, and (I believe) Jesus held false eschatological views. Is this another traditional Christian assumption (that there is a clear and correct eschatology in the New Testament) that we can jettison and still come away with the same faith? Could we stand an errant Paul or even an errant Jesus and still hang our hats on the resurrection?

10 comments:

  1. To Steve or the other triablogue guys, can you please show me where Jesus explicitly says that the pentateuch was written by Moses? Thanks.

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  2. That's a fallacy of question-framing. The argument for the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch isn't confined to an explicit statement by Jesus.

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  3. Keep in mind, too, that the comment I posted isn't just about denying the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, but a steady process of attrition, where one Biblical claim after another is jettisoned.

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  4. So a more correct inquiry would be: "How do we know that Jesus believed Moses wrote the Pentateuch?"

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  5. OK, Steve, I'll ask a better question. What is your case that the the pentateuch was written by Moses? Can you provide specific Bible verses? I know it's not the main point of the article, but it is an honest question. I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Thanks in advance.

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  6. This article addresses the issue of Moses writing Genesis:
    It makes a strong case for Jesus believing that Moses wrote the Penteteuch.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/06/28/did-moses-write-genesis#fnMark_1_1_1

    Taken all together, these verses indicate that Jesus thought Moses was the human writer of the Pentateuch -

    John 5:45-47
    Matthew 19:8
    John 7:19
    Matthew 8:4
    Mark 12:26
    Luke 16:29
    Luke 24:27

    Interesting the Steve also recently linked to Cyrus Gordon's (a Jewish scholar, not a born-again Christian) article from 1959 - "Higher Criticism and the Forbidden Fruit" - an excellent article that I read around 1987-1988 in Seminary at Columbia International University - it was very helpful against the JEDP theory. When I taught OT survey, I made copies of this article for students to read.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/85617415/Higher-Critics-and-Forbidden-Fruit-Cyrus-H-Gordon

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  7. Ken,

    to mention along with those verses the fact that Peter, James and John saw both Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus, and, as you show there in Luke's account at verse 24:27 Jesus opens the minds of the two walking on their way to Emmaus. To that Peter makes mention this: 2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,"
    2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
    2Pe 1:19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
    2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.
    2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


    And to build on these facts is the fact that Jesus told this same Peter to go fish and when he catches the fish he is to take out of fish's mouth a shekel and pay the poll tax, the tribute and atonement tax that goes to sustain the Temple and the Levitical priesthood so as not to offend God or the law abiding tax collectors collecting the tax prescribed by Moses in the book of Exodus! See Exodus chapters 30 and 38 and for the story Matthew 17.

    The reality of the Jesus/Moses connection is all through the Scriptures. The one that is most destructive in nature in my view for anyone who would scorn these facts is this one. Here is this same Peter moved upon by the Holy Spirit saying this about this Jesus/Moses connection:

    Act 3:22 Moses said, 'The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you.
    Act 3:23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.'


    Does it get anymore perspicacious than that?

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  8. You are right. The apostles also taught that Moses wrote the Five Books of the Torah. Amen, brother!
    I was just answering Mike's question about whether Jesus believed Moses was the human writer of the 5 books of Moses.

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  9. Thanks for the answers, guys. :^)

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  10. This guy saw the logical progression of denying God's word.

    I recently went through a year of pretty intense doubt over the delay of the Parousia. Thankfully, there are scholars like Richard Bauckham, Richard Hayes, Richard Pratt, and bloggers like Jason Engwer who show that the biblical text does not need to be understood in that way. There is actually good reason to view the tension as part of biblical theology. However, when we apply modern ideas of time, and "fulfillment" we get an overly realized eschatology. God saved me from apostasy.

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