Saturday, January 20, 2007

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

Peter Popoff Ministries
(music) whooooah She's going to take off and dance a little bit. She had multiple sclerosis, she had a stroke, she called and got the miracle spring water, and she has never felt better in her life, she came right out of that wheelchair.

I've Rev. Peter Popoff and this is my precious wife, Elizabeth and we're just so excited about what God is doing in the lives of so many people today. Salvation, healing, deliverance. We've got testimonies to share with you today that I know will challenge your faith. Is that right Liz?...Liz is going to read to you some of the testimonies of people who have used it as a point of contact and seen the most amazing miracles, spiritual, physical, and financial. Amazing financial testimonies! Everywhere we go people want to know if we have any miracle spring water with us. That's right! We're known by our miracle spring water. Amen! It's real sweet! Well, it's free you can have it. We'll tell you how to use it, all you need to do is call the number on your screen, we'll tell you more about it.

Now we're gonna go right into the powerful miracle service already in progress. Here we go! (applause) Glory to God, I tell you God's going to set you free tonight. Could I just have this? I tell you, this just burns the devil up! (music and applause) Amen! The devil wants you walking around on a stick but I tell ya the devil's a liar. (music and applause). There he goes (music and applause)! there he goes! I tell you the devil's a liar. Jesus let that anointing and power flow, let me just move this out her so she can stand up. Glory to God! Come on, let, hold up that, hold up that walker she's been walking on. How many of you know that's a blow of defeat for the devil? What happened to the pain? It's gone! My neck was hurting my back was hurting, but I thank you Lord cause I know who you are. I give God the glory and the praise. And I live for you God. I just thank you God! WHOOPS! (music)

There's a woman that had that, I tell you Jesus just put a brand new disc, vertebrae in…ah, ah, ah, woo. This sister called up got the miracle spring water, she had had stomach pain for years. Before she even read your instruction one drop of the miracle spring water hit her foot and the pain vanished instantly. One drop hit her foot! One drop! One drop! What happened to you? Yes, I have been corresponding with you for about five years now and you've been sending me letters and I have been sending them back and being obedience and God has really blessed me. Over the last year or two He has blessed me with over a hundred and forty thousand dollars. Hundred and forty thousand dollars! You know that was a divine transfer? Divine transfer and the best is yet to come!

This sister here let me tell you, she called in and got the miracle spring water, but as you can see her standing here, she called to get the miracle spring water she was confined to a wheelchair. She had multiple sclerosis, she had a stroke, she called and got the miracle spring water and she's never felt better in her life. She came right out of that wheelchair! After you used the miracle spring water? That's right! I mean I was completely handicapped, I was slobbering at the mouth, I was shaking, I couldn't walk, I couldn't talk, or nothing. And my brother back there is a living witness, they had told me, I went to doctor, to doctor, to doctor and they said they couldn't do nothing for me. You told me to drink the water and anoint my whole body with it. And I did it and in 2 weeks I was out of the wheelchair, and walking, and driving! Look at this, I tell you this is a modern day 20th century miracle! We give God the glory.

Miracle spring water testimonies were all inspiring this past year. We remember the woman in Houston, Texas who was healed of kidney disease and set free from the dialysis machine she was on for over a year. And the woman in Orlando, Florida who was healed of multiple sclerosis after she anointed herself with the miracle spring water. Millions of dollars of miracle money was also divinely transferred to the body of Christ through the use of miracle spring water. She said I went from in debt to a multi million-dollar construction business over night! God has made me a millionaire this year!
Stay tuned, your going to receive a touch from God right now! Your going to receive a healing, you’re going to see a miracle in your own life. Stay tuned, don't miss this! All right we're coming right back, but we're going to go back into the powerful miracle service. Five years you have been suffering? Yes! Here it goes! I'll tell you your gonna feel so good, your gonna sleep like a little baby, your gonna know.oh oh Because I don't have no pain, I don't have no pain. I can jump!

Pastor this sister had a double divine transfer. She called in she got the miracle spring water her house was going into foreclosure. When the miracle spring water showed up not only did they not foreclose on her house, but she sold it and made 10 thousand dollars profit. Was there pain in your body when you came? My neck and my knees, my knee I have a broken knee and cartilage in my left knee. Where's the pain now? It's gone! It's gone? It's gone. I know that the spring water has uh helped my body many times but um I also after the Jacksonville meeting there was um forty six thousand two hundred dollars transferred into my account.

This spring water is a mighty point of contact for anyone to use! I had had a stroke in June and I couldn't move the left side of my body and I had gotten the spring water a few months prior and I had just thrown it into the drawer and when I came home I couldn't take care of myself I couldn't do anything. I took and anointed my body with this spring water and God healed me. You see me now, I couldn't move my left side, I couldn't move anything on the left side. I was dead on the left side. And God healed me through the miracle spring water. I used the miracle spring water and God healed me of diabetes. I was diagnosed with diabetes a year ago and a couple of months and I wrote Rev. Peter Popoff and I told him about it and he's been writing me back. And I went back to the doctor and the doctor said I didn't have diabetes. Did you use my miracle spring water? Yes I did!

Pastor, this is an incredible miracle spring water testimony. This sister was on the verge of losing her business because of a satanic attack. She called and got the miracle spring water, she followed the instructions and immediately her business increased one hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year. (applause) The divine transfer has begun. New homes, new cars, new jobs, unexpected miracle money. I didn't believe it and the next day I went down to the bank and I asked them for a print out and sure enough it was true, this large sum of money appeared in my bank account.

God wants to bring you out of lack and into abundance. To help you get into position to receive God's divine transfer Peter Popoff is going to send you a free packet of miracle spring water. The anointing on this faith building point of contact will transform your circumstances from not enough to more than enough. I got the home, I got the car, and I got the eight thousand dollar blessing! I bought 3 houses I am going to closing on, I'm on my way to my multi million dollar potential. Halleluiah! Hoodoo To receive your free packet of miracle spring water all you have to do is call the number on your screen. Expand your vision and raise your sight. Call for your free packet of the miracle spring water. Your divine transfer is on its way! Call now!

I opened the letter and I put the spring water on me, you know put it on me, and I waited at first I didn't believe at first but then when things started happening a couple of months and days to weeks things started happening as God you know, things began to come to pass so I got a nice husband, then God blessed me with him through him ninety four thousand dollars in the bank. Which it came from nowhere and we are trying to figure out where did it come from? Now just a minute! She got blessed with a nice husband, well, that's a miracle, did I hear you say ninety four thousand? Yes, ninety four thousand, I thought it was ninety-four cents, and I'm like na ha you made a mistake na ha ninety four thousand dollars. She thought it was ninety-four cents it was ninety four thousand dollars. Whoooo I have sensed an anointing in our services. Especially this last few weeks that I have never sensed before. A prosperity anointing and we've just witnessed an explosion of divine transfers, miracle money being deposited into the checking accounts of believers. Debts cancelled. It's truly been amazing Liz!

And the testimonies have poured in. That's true, here's one from Jarrett, Virginia and this woman received the miracle spring water and she anointed her husbands wallet and that day he won a three hundred dollar prize at work. Now is that a miracle? Amen! Instantaneously! She anointed her husbands wallet and it was blessed. Here's one from New Orleans I won a million dollars, amen, and the first thing I thought about was you and the miracle oil you sent me a long time ago. Praise God! A brand new millionaire! That's right!

Here's a lady from Brooklyn, I got a miracle through one of your letters you wrote. You said I would receive some money, and I received three checks in the mail for fifteen thousand dollars from my pension plan. Praise God! A fifteen thousand dollar divine transfer. Wouldn't you like that if you received a fifteen thousand dollar check? God is no respecter of persons, what he did for, it's a woman? Yes, it's Sister Adams, amen, what He did for Sister Adams He will do for you. Call the number on your screen get the miracle spring water, follow the steps you'll see a miracle.

Go ahead, here's another one, Sister Grisby I used the miracle spring water and I'm having everything that I asked God for. He's blessed me right now in the name of Jesus! Amen! Everything that she asked God for. God said He would give us the desires of our heart. And that is what He did. Read one more Liz. I used the miracle spring water and I sent you the seven dollars you told me to send, that Friday I received two thousand dollars. A two thousand dollar divine transfer! That's a good investment! Amen!

But we're going back into the powerful miracle service right now. This brother here has the most fantastic incredible testimony. It is a divine transfer testimony…That's why Rev. Peter Popoff wants to send you the miracle spring water absolutely free. Because when you receive the miracle spring water and follow the instructions your life will supernaturally improve in ways you can hardly imagine. Thank you Jesus! Six point five million settlement! Halleluiah! A hundred and thirty eight thousand I.R.S. debt totally cleaned and wiped from my credit report. She got the miracle spring water, anointed her throat went back to the doctor and the cancer is gone. What God has done for others He will do for you!

Call now to receive this faith building point of contact and release God's miracle working power where you need it the most. Call the number on your screen to receive your free packet of the miracle spring water. It's time for your miracle! Call now! This sister's son was totally hooked on the devils candy, and you know that's drugs, and he ended up going to the penitentiary but she called in and got the miracle spring water and followed the instructions and not only did her son come out of jail not hooked on drugs, he came out totally saved as a Christian. Praise God! (applause) Praise God for that!

Elizabeth you’re going to agree with me right now, yes, amen! We're going to put our hands out toward you just stretch forth your hand Liz, my wife and I unite our faith together on your behalf. Lord we agree, right now on behalf of everyone that's in pain everyone that's suffering, everyone that's carrying a heavy load, Lord Jesus, let your mighty yoke destroying, burden removing anointing flow out over these airwaves right now, and touch each and everyone watching. Lord, touch their bodies I rebuke the pain, I rebuke the spirit of heaviness, depression, I rebuke that spirit of poverty and lack, Oh Lord, let your blessing, your health, your peace flow, like a mighty river. There it is! It's done in the name of Jesus. Liz, I feel that anointing, I feel that power flowing right now.

Liz I just feel God has done something very special, I feel that many financial miracles have been released today. I believe that too Pete. Amen! Amen! I think a lot of physical healing too. A lot of physical healing, I feel that also. Amen! I was blessed with a house. I was blessed with thirteen thousand six hundred and ninety five dollars. Thirty six thousand two hundred dollars transferred into my account. All of her debt was completely cancelled. Thousands of dollars. Hundred and forty thousand dollars! You know that was a divine transfer? Divine transfer in Jesus Name and the best is yet to come! To help you get in to position to receive God's divine transfer, Peter Popoff is going to send you a free packet of miracle spring water. The anointing on this faith building point of contact will transform your circumstances from not enough to more than enough. I got the home, I got the car and I got eight thousand dollar financial blessing. 3 houses I am going to be closing on, I'm on my way to my multi-million dollar potential. Hallelujah! To receive your free packet of miracle spring water all you have to do is call the number on your screen. Expand your vision and raise your sight. Call for your free packet of the miracle spring water. Your divine transfer is on its way! Call now!

http://www.peterpopoffdivinetransfer.com/

Hydrotherapeutic Spa: Massage, Health & Fitness in Your Own Bathtub: Anions / Negative Ions / Ozone / Aromatherapy

Additional testimonies

Mr. Ekgapong: age 19, from Thailand: collapsed with cerebral thrombosis. He went into a coma for a period and then was bedridden for four years, unable to do anything. After using the spa for ten days, he started to sit, blink his eyes, and smile. After two months, he was able to walk with a walking aid.

* * *

Mrs. Suporn of Thailand, age 40: She suffered a stroke, couldn't move, and had to be fed and bathed. Soon after using the SG-2000 spa she was able to move her limbs and mouth, and started recovering back to normal. A thyroid condition was also cured.

* * *

Jessie Yeo: after two weeks using the spa and seaweed salt, her weight went down by 2 kilograms (4 1/2 lbs.). After six months, she had lost 10 kg (22 lbs.).

* * *

Katherine Yeo: after three months' use, she lost 11 kg (24 lbs.).

* * *

Mrs. Zhang Ching Fang, Taiwan, age 56: suffered from migraine headaches, gout, rheumatism, pain in knees and legs, and obesity; couldn't stand or lift up hands, had weakness in her entire body, injured vertebrae; needed brace straps. After six months of the SG-2000 spa, her migraines completely stopped, she was able to stand and walk, and she lost 20 kg (44 lbs.).

* * *

Mdm. Maria Goh, Singapore, age 58: suffered from severe depression due to grief (her husband died in June 2005), was suicidal, not able to sleep well, had blood in the urine. After her first spa, she slept soundly for 12 hours. Now the blood in the urine is gone, as is her depression.

* * *

Mrs. Huang Chew Ruan, Taiwan, age 50: suffered from body pains. Upon first using the spa, the pains worsened (sometimes this happens in the detox process; similar to withdrawal from drugs). But after three months, 80% of the pains were gone, with total relief from pain in six months.

* * *

Mrs. Zhang Yar Ching, China, age 50: had rheumatoid arthritis, high blood pressure, hearty problems, backaches; unable to breathe well; could only walk for 15 minutes without feeling exhausted and breathless; couldn't be left alone. She felt better after two weeks of the spa, and after three months, all the problems subsided.

* * *

Mdm. Chen Shao Mei, China: rheumatoid arthritis since she was a baby; dark pigmentation on cheeks and neck. She was treated with accupuncture from ages 1 to 7, and doctors recommended injection of drugs when she was 17, but these lowered her immune system and caused problems in internal organs. After one month using the SG-2000 spa, the pigmentation disappeared, her body became stronger, and the rheumatism was gone.

* * *

Mrs. Liu Fang Ting, Taiwan, age 45: whole body ahces, gastric problems, bone and back aches, nerve pain, sinus problems, insomnia, numbness. She tried laser, accupuncture; doctors had trouble diagnosing the cause; needed injections for pain. After six months using the spa, all her pains were gone.

* * *

Mrs. Chen Siew Lee, USA: backache and nerve pains for seven years, heart problems, chest pains, highly stressed, trouble breathing, irregular heartbeat. After two months of spa, her heartbeat was normal. After three months, the backahce was cured and nerve pains gone.

* * *

Mr. Dennis Sim, Singapore: Very bad cough for over 40 years. Each cough lasted two to three months; mild diabetes. Unable to sleep due to the coughing. Because of the spa, the cough attacks have been gone for two years; diabetes medication was reduced, and can eat ice cream again.

* * *

Ms. Chow Zin Hua, Taiwan: Fell from the 2nd story and was paralyzed from the waist down. She had to move around by crawling, and was told that she would be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. She had to do therapy everyday. She was invited by a friend to try the SG-2000. After about a month later, she was able to walk, and six months later, she was able to dance with high heel shoes.

* * *

Mr. Jupiter Lim, Singapore, age 50: Backache for over a year, appendicitis, cancer tunor in the right kidney (9.5 cm). Was extremely weak and frail: could be pushed over with one finger. After five months of the SG-2000 spa, he is fairly strong and with good energy, looks ten years younger, cancer cells are compoletely gone, no need for chemotherapy or medication, no backache.

* * *

Lin Cui Lin: breast cancer patient. She was given two years to live (without chemotherapy) in 1996, but was able to go into remission for five years due to diets and detox programs, before suffering a sudden relapse. The tumor grew and she had to have a mastectomy in March 2005. She encountered great side effects with chemotherapy. On 13 July 2005, Lin came across the SG-2000 spa and says "it began to transform my life completely. I am deeply thankful for that." She had suffered water retention problems during chemotherapy. But after every spa she could relieve herself. After two weeks of the spa, her migraines, which had lasted ten years, improved tremendously. After four weeks, her back pain and stiff shoulders lessened. "Coldness" in the body subsided after six weeks. On 29 August 2005 her red and white blood cells were at 4500: the highest in ten years. On 29 September 2005, her cancer cells were at a normal level,and she stopped chemotherapy treatments. She continued to spa. On 2 January 2006, it was discovered that the tumors in her liver and lymph nodes were all cleared. She was given a clean bill of health on 5 January 2006 and was told she no longer needed chemotherapy. She reports: "I am now so much happier and very cheerful with lots of energy for life!"

* * *

Matthew had reduced his weight from 68 kg (149 lbs.) to 62 kg in 2 1/2 years with nutrition and fasting, but then in only six months of spa use, he went down to 49 kg (108 lbs.). He was also able to avoid having triple bypass heart surgery. He used to experience breathlessness climbing one flight of stairs. Now he can go up and down eight flights and feels very healthy, with lots of energy. Matthew was also an ex-prostate cancer patient. With the help of the spa, his 0.6 psa reading has been well under the 4 ug/L max. for the normal person.

* * *

Final Word / Why I Promote the SG-2000 Spa

If you feel the same way, and believe (as I do) that you could greatly benefit from the SG-2000 spa, feel free to write to me today (please include "spa" in the title of the e-mail). I'd be glad to answer any of your questions, or direct you to someone who can. Follow the links provided above for more detailed information and research.

If you live in or near southeast Michigan, you can come and try a free 15-minute spa (or we could talk on the phone if you like: I'll call anyone in the US, to save you the "dime"; those from other countries can call me if they want to - my phone service doesn't have unlimited international!). This home hydrotherapeutic spa could radically change your life, as it has ours, and has with many many people. Have a wonderful day, and may God bless you (naturally or supernaturally) with great health, to experience life as it should be.

Dave Armstrong

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/hydrotherapeutic-spa-massa_116777269238730110.html

19 comments:

  1. Do you remember when the Amazing Randi went to a Peter Popoff meeting and caught his wife broadcasting information to dear Peter? "Peter, can you hear me? If you can't, you're in trouble. All right, the next person is . . ." Then this guy makes a comeback!

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  2. Unfortunately, when Armstrong starts quoting snake-oil testimonials about how his glorified Jacuzzi can cure terminal cancer and spinal cord injury, he instantly ranks himself with the worst charlatans and con-men inside or outside the church, from Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, and Creflo Dollar to Ken Lay and Bernard Ebbers.

    But I guess that's hard surprising from the church that gave the world Johann Tetzel.

    He should rename his blog scam-ad-scam loquitur.

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  3. I think the actual slogan goes "there's a sucker born again every minute!"

    Otherwise.... ::YAWN!!::

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  4. Much of the fundy Christian population is already known to be a gullible market of superstitious credophiles who will believe in just about anything a charismatic religious speaker tells them.

    Taking advantage of these superstitious dullards is truly the world's oldest profession.

    Praise Jebus!

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  5. I'm curious:

    Are you saying that my wife Judy is lying through her teeth to her own husband about reduction of severe back pain as a result of 52% curvature of her spine and lifelong scoliosis?

    Are you saying that she is lying about being able to sleep like a baby every night now for five weeks, after 13 years of insomnia?

    Is she also lying about losing about seven pounds weight in that same time period?

    I made very clear my position on the evidential status of testimonies, on the same page these appeared (and the URL cited). There is nothing improper here at all, except your lying and twisting and distorting what I am claiming about the spa. But for you, lying (at least where I am concerned) is about as natural as breathing.

    Of course (needless to say) none of your conclusions about me follow at all. It's just a groundless attempt to make me look like a fool. Who cares? I wouldn't have expected to sell any of these to your anti-Catholic cronies, anyway, so it has zero effect on anything.

    Anyone who wants to engage in rational, science-based discussion about the various benefits of this spa can write to me anytime.

    As for Copeland et al, I was refuting them as far back as 1982:

    Biblical Refutation of "Hyperfaith" / "Name-it-Claim it" Teaching: Is it Always God's Will to Heal in Every Instance?
    http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ440.HTM

    Oh, and by the way, thanks for the extra advertising! :-)

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  6. Dave Armstrong said:
    I'm curious:

    Are you saying that my wife Judy is lying through her teeth to her own husband about reduction of severe back pain as a result of 52% curvature of her spine and lifelong scoliosis?

    Are you saying that she is lying about being able to sleep like a baby every night now for five weeks, after 13 years of insomnia?

    Is she also lying about losing about seven pounds weight in that same time period?

    *********************************

    I have no opinion about your wife's testimony one way or the other. And I didn't cite it.

    But one can cite identical testimonies from people who frequent faith-healers of the Benny Hinn variety. So it has zero evidentiary value.

    *****************************************

    I made very clear my position on the evidential status of testimonies, on the same page these appeared (and the URL cited). There is nothing improper here at all, except your lying and twisting and distorting what I am claiming about the spa. But for you, lying (at least where I am concerned) is about as natural as breathing.

    *******************************

    To the contrary, it's absolutely immoral for you to reproduce "testimonies" of people who claim to have been cured of terminal cancer or spinal cord injury, &c., by using your spa.

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  7. I have no opinion about your wife's testimony one way or the other. And I didn't cite it.

    That's a coward's response: just what (sadly) I expected from you. You want to run everything down, so put up or shut up, and be consistent and fair-minded.

    Do you believe her or not, or is she a liar? Or perhaps she is mentally ill, so that her report can't be trusted? You characterized all the reports as "snake-oil testimonials". Does that include my wife's too? Or do you give her a pass? She has integrity and tells the truth because I know her (hence your convenient omission of her case), and these other people are all bald-faced liars and charlatans because they happen to be Chinese? Every last one of them?

    But one can cite identical testimonies from people who frequent faith-healers of the Benny Hinn variety. So it has zero evidentiary value.

    That's not true. It's firsthand experiential evidence. Would you assume that a loved one of yours was lying if they told you they could now sleep after 13 years, or had far less back pain after literally a lifetime of it? Would you call them a liar to their face? On what basis? You deny them their self-report???!!!

    Would you laugh in their face and scoff, as you are doing with these other people, and care not a whit that someone you loved was feeling much better, because in your fertile, falacy-filled mind it "zero evidentiary value"? I highly doubt it.

    Furthermore, it's exactly the same sort of evidence that Christianity itself is based on, in terms of how it spread at first, and the evidence that the first Christians presented in order to back up the gospel and the truth claims.

    The Resurrection (not exactly something one would expect to see every day) was proclaimed based on eyewitness, experiential testimony.

    So if you wish to completely dismiss the "evidential value" of all such evidence, report, experience; be my guest, but you just undermined much of the initial apostolic proclamation. It seems that this would lead one to reconsider such ludicrous and extreme positions.

    The spa I am promoting involves strictly natural processes, all in turn, confirmed in some way by scientific research in reputable journals. You can quibble with the studies if you like.

    In any event, it has no relation whatsoever to claims of supernatural healing because it's not (DUH!!!!!) claiming to be a supernatural product in the first place! What about that is so difficult for you to grasp?

    But you, of course, being fond of the cynical, often uncharitable behavior you repeatedly exhibit, know that many of your readers will not make this simple, elementary distinction, and will go right along with your idiotic and topically irrelevant mocking and ridicule, simply because you lead them on and because they are willing to hear any lie about a Catholic apologist.

    To the contrary, it's absolutely immoral for you to reproduce "testimonies" of people who claim to have been cured of terminal cancer or spinal cord injury, &c., by using your spa.

    On what basis? What Bible verse forbids such a thing? I have no reason to believe that any of these people are lying. They MAY be, of course (anything is possible), but unless I see compelling evidence to prove that I won't make such an uncharitable judgment of any person.

    This is especially true in the present case because I have seen with my own eyes the remarkable improvement of my own wife, who has suffered from severe back pain her entire life and the 22 years we have been married. Now if you cared more about people's well-being than you did about lying and putting others down without cause, that would make you rejoice, and be curious as to how this happened.

    But instead you want to be a coward, whose bark is bigger than his bite. You run like all intellectual bully types, who love to overwhelm others (many of lesser IQ and analytical skills) with all your flowery rhetoric and stupid, poorly-done satire, based on fallacy and ignorance, and a gross distortion of a position you don't care for, yet you high-tail it for the hills in terror when someone confronts you with your lies and errors.

    I already dealt with this general line of hyper-skeptical "reasoning" in my paper chronicling the testimonials.

    No one is claiming that anyone can be "cured of terminal cancer . . . by using [the] spa." What is claimed in the testimonials is that, in some cases, the tumors were reduced, the cancer went into remission, or the tumors went away.

    This either happened or it did not. You immediately claim it didn't (just as atheists dismiss every Christian claim). But I see no reason, epistemologically, that this is necessary.

    What: people have lied in the past about such things, so all these people without exception (and my wife) must necessarily be liars? We can't trust a word any of them say? The whole thing is a complete scam. This is unreasonable and uncharitable as well.

    I wrote on the testimonial page:

    "One shouldn't blindly accept claims, with no rational investigation. Anecdotal evidence is good and not to be dismissed, but the problem is that, for example, one person in a hundred may be cured of cancer by using some method (spa or otherwise). That's great, but it's only 1% of all who tried (and that is statistically insignificant: one can get one out of a hundred for almost anything). Anecdotes usually don't tell us how many tried and failed.

    "I keep anecdotes in perspective, per the above, but I don't completely dismiss them out of hand . . . All the various aspects of the spa have been supported by scientific research. These things are good for health. They have a positive effect.

    "As for cancer, lots of factors go into both cause and prolonging the cancer victim's life. If you doubt that, go ask any oncologist in any hospital cancer ward: they'll tell you the same thing. My brother Gerry had leukemia and was given a year or so to live by the doctors in 1989. Due to various alternative treatments he lived till 1998.

    "My father has lung cancer. I haven't told him that this machine could cure him, but I sure do believe it could help him and promote health and recovery from all the deleterious effects of chemotherapy.

    [as a matter of fact, my dad also has severe arthritis. The last time he saw his arthritis doctor, my wife mentioned the spa and asked the doctor if it would be good for my dad. He said it would be great, and indeed, pain from bone diseases is perhaps helped more than anything, for spa users.]

    ". . . The literature from the spa company does not claim to "cure" cancer. One must be careful in critiquing. The four-page color brochure never mentions cancer, nor many other serious diseases. The longer, detailed booklet (magazine-length) doesn't, either. In fact, in a study of the SG-2000, by Dr. Pulket, he concluded that five major diseases could be treated (note: he doesn't even say "cured"): bowel syndrome, insomnia, arthritis, menopause, and anxiety.

    ". . . Besides, if you look at chemotherapy and its success rates, they are very low. This is easily ascertained if you look at the scientific literature on the subject (as I have, myself, since my father has lung cancer; and tons of this stuff can be found online).

    "Doctors have told us personally (one oncologist friend, in personal correspondence), that rates of "cure" (defined for cancer patients as five years without further growth, or, roughly, a "remission") are pretty low, and that chemotherapy does very little, and in fact, can harm the body's immune system considerably."

    Lastly, there is a great deal of scientific support for infrared radiation (that is an element of this spa) as a treatment for cancer. I didn't make this up. It's in the reputable journals (and much of it is "conventional" use in medicine, not even necessarily categorized as "alternative"). I documented it:

    Scientific Support For Infrared Radiation & Hyperthermia as Cancer Treatments

    http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/12/hydrotherapeutic-spa-massa_116867066024530756.html

    If you and your readers want to mock that, it's up to you. Go ahead. Make a fool of yourself and parade your ignorance if you must. I, for one, take science very seriously, and I am willing to go where it's confirmed results lead. If these researchers say there is some basis for infrared radiation reducing cancerous tumors, and they demonstrate this by the usual accepted empirical methods and processes, I accept their results.

    If that is established scientifically (some success; not a total cure, etc.), then in my opinion, a truly scientifically-informed mind will say it is possible that the spa can be helping folks, by the same process. And it is an unscientific, irrational attitude that would dismiss all such finds of science, on grounds that some people in the historyt of the world have lied in their "testimonials"; therefore everyone who gives a testimony is a liar.

    Some logic there, Steve. But I'm not in the least surprised that a guy who thinks the universe is 6000-10,000 years old would thumb his nose at scientific findings, as well as reported health improvements en masse.

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  8. And here is my tribute to Steve's profound scientific acumen:

    http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/01/steve-hays-man-of-science-sez-universe.html

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  9. Poor Dave,

    Martyr for Rome. Yet, what does the Magisterium have to say about the Spa, Dave? Hmmm. Does a Marian Apparition come down to stir the waters like the angel @ the Pool of Siloam? For that matter is that account somehow a biblical justification for your spa?

    Notice how Dave just a few threads ago didn't like it that he was called a "killjoy," because of this sort of behavior. Just about any time his name is mentioned, this is what happens. Ho-hum, Dave. Thanks for proving what others have to say about your behavior true yet again.

    See how he discusses his wife, but Steve never once mentioned Dave's wife. No, everything for Dave is personal. Yes, that's Dave for you, Martyr for Mary.

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  10. Nothing like watching Christians go at it...like watching WWE fans argue about who the REAL champ should be.

    HAW HAW HAW!!!

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  11. Notice how Dave just a few threads ago didn't like it that he was called a "killjoy," because of this sort of behavior.

    Right, Gene. Whatever you say. Lessee: Steve claims that something I am doing is "absolutely immoral" and that I cite "snake-oil testimonials" and that I rank myself "with the worst charlatans and con-men inside or outside the church."

    And (let's get this straight what you are saying) if I dare to utter one peep of resistance to Steve's nonsense, alas, I am a killjoy!!! We can't have that! It's too much fun to lie and make total asses and absolute idiots of ourselves, to have "killjoy" Dave come and spoil our fun! We mustn't have that, right Gene?

    Heaven forbid that the principle of a man having a fair shake and the opportunity to defend himself against quite serious charges, could ever occur here without yet more mockery and inanity from the likes of you and Steve.

    Just about any time his name is mentioned, this is what happens.

    If I am lied about, and the "reasoning" behind it is absolutely ludicrous; yes, I will defend myself. At least I can defend what I believe and not run like a scared chicken, like Steve does, whenever I confront him with a crucial question. What do you expect me to do: just cower here in abject submission to my anti-Catholic overlords? Am I too uppity to you, that I dare call nonsense and lies what they are?

    Ho-hum, Dave. Thanks for proving what others have to say about your behavior true yet again.

    They can say whatever they like. I'll defend my beliefs unless and until I am presented reasoning that is sufficient to overthrow them. If you or anyone else doesn't like that, too bad.

    See how he discusses his wife, but Steve never once mentioned Dave's wife.

    That's irrelevant. My wife is relevant because I included her own testimonial in my literature for the spa. Her case illustrates a very important principle: if one person is telling the truth about something, perhaps the others may be also. Steve can't admit that because it would undermine his irrational, ridiculous hyper-skepticism: that everyone giving similar testimony is lying and it is all a scam and a ruse.

    He knows full well (he's not dumb; just a coward) that if he grants my wife's case, that there is no compelling reason to immediately dismiss all the others, as he has been doing. Therefore, he tries to weasel his way oput of those implications with his usual sophistry, and you come by and aid his lamentable anti-intellectual efforts by your mockery and further irrelevancies. All I want to do is talk intelligently about the different natures of evidence and their relative strengths, and about scientific research.

    No, everything for Dave is personal.

    It's got nothing whatsoever to do with "personal." Rather, it's a crucial question about the value of testimonial, eyewitness, firsthand, experiential testimony. I am saying it can't be dismissed out of hand. He seems to imply that it can be. My wife's own testimony is absolutely relevant to that discussion.

    But she's not across the sea; a picture on a page, from a different culture. She's a real flesh-and-blood person who lives with me. So Steve doesn't want to deal with that because he knows how it will uindermine his stupid position, if he admits that she is telling the truth.

    If she's telling the truth, then what happens? Well, this "snake oil" machine I am promoting is actually doing something and helping people. And then it is not so immoral that I am trying to sell it, is it?

    So I continue to ask him what he thinks about my wife's remarkable improvement?

    Yes, that's Dave for you, Martyr for Mary.

    You go on acting like an ass and a mocker; I'll keep on making rational, objective arguments. No skin off my back.

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  12. You guys need to grow up, really. Both sides. This act is getting old...

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  13. it's only just begun1/22/2007 12:07 AM

    Mr Soong Chu-yu , China, age 58: ringing in his ears, blindness, bowel cancer, leprosy, deafness, missing legs, schizophrenia, bullet wounds. Was given 2 weeks to live. He tried seeing a foot doctor, having his skeleton amputated; doctors had trouble diagnosing the cause; needed injections for the bowel cancer. After half an hour using the spa, all his pains were gone.

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  14. Ah, supa, whadda you know? You're just a martyr, snake oil salesman, killjoy, peddler of "absolutely immoral" products, conniving, lying purveyor of false hopes and fake healings and one of the worst charlatans and con-men inside or outside the church.

    Kinda get an idea yet (maybe the slightest inkling) why I would respond forcefully against this sort of bilge?

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  15. Well hey it's,

    The spa also heals brain paralysis and verbal diarrhea, even advanced imbecility! What are you waiting for?

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  16. Remember Gene,

    ...Pearls before swine...

    The DOGpreacher

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  17. Every Christian must try his best, by God's grace to rise above the tendency to name-call and slander others (I was convicted after reading an excellent series of articles from my priest):

    http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/01/fr-paul-ward-on-charitable-speech-and.html

    Therefore, I offer my profoundest apologies and regrets to Steve and ask his forgiveness for the following comments (and all like them that I have overlooked), which I retract:

    ". . . your lying and twisting and distorting what I am claiming about the spa. But for you, lying (at least where I am concerned) is about as natural as breathing."

    ". . . your fertile, fallacy-filled mind . . ."

    ". . . you, of course, being fond of the cynical, often uncharitable behavior you repeatedly exhibit, . . . your idiotic and topically irrelevant mocking and ridicule . . ."

    "if you cared more about people's well-being than you did about lying and putting others down without cause, . . ."

    ". . . instead you want to be a coward, whose bark is bigger than his bite. You run like all intellectual bully types, who love to overwhelm others (many of lesser IQ and analytical skills) with all your flowery rhetoric and stupid, poorly-done satire, based on fallacy and ignorance, and a gross distortion of a position you don't care for, yet you high-tail it for the hills in terror when someone confronts you with your lies and errors."

    "Make a fool of yourself and parade your ignorance if you must."

    ". . . (he's not dumb; just a coward) . . ."

    ". . . he tries to weasel his way out of those implications with his usual sophistry, . . ."

    ". . . his lamentable anti-intellectual efforts . . ."

    And I also offer my profoundest apologies and regrets to Gene and ask his forgiveness for the following comments, which I retract:

    "It's too much fun to lie and make total asses and absolute idiots of ourselves, to have "killjoy" Dave come and spoil our fun! We mustn't have that, right Gene?"

    " . . . yet more mockery and inanity from the likes of you and Steve."

    ". . . your mockery and further irrelevancies."

    "You go on acting like an ass and a mocker . . ."

    I also offer my profoundest apologies and regrets to "it's only just begun" and ask his forgiveness for the following comment, which I retract (even though it was obviously a humorous retort):

    "The spa also heals brain paralysis and verbal diarrhea, even advanced imbecility! What are you waiting for?"

    Reacting to someone else's comments, even if unjust and unfair, is no excuse. The whole point of the Christian life is to be different, by God's grace, and to be an example of God's love in action. It's gotta start with "me". We all have to look at ourselves first.

    May God richly bless everyone here and guide your footsteps as you love and serve Him.

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  18. ...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

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  19. dear peter,
    my name is bridget beyant i live at 2241 west penscola st apt 81 you sent me some information in the mail.you ask for some money but i dont have any would you still help me or can you still help me.i love the lord jesus christ whoes the head of my life and i know the bible and i dont remember jesus asking for any money for his healing,delverance,ect he even healed on the sabbath day.i am not trying to question any of your works because you say you are the man of the lord. but i do have to wonder can the lord help some one that dont have money.
    p.s.
    i will send what i have cause the lord said have the faith the size of a mustard seed. from what i've heard he is and on time god,i just want to see will god really give me my heart desires that i so long waited for.it seem as if every thing i love even down to the materail things get taken away.i try to seek god with all my heart but something always happend and i loose.
    my god always bless,
    bridget bryant of tallahassee florida phone number 850 350 0826.
    p.s.s.
    there some sisuations i am going through that i just cant seem to get through. i tryed to go to the lord about and not lead to my own understanding. can you help. when i seen you and a couple other people on t.v. i said maybe the lord will give him an answer so i can better understand.
    my e-mail address is b.bridget@earthlink.net will be expecting to hear from you soon thanks.

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