To Our Anonymous Muslim Apologist

In the combox of my post on Islam we've had an anonymous Muslim commenter trying to do Muslim apologetics. Most of his comments seem to not be a response to my arguments so much, but, rather, are used as his soapbox to rant about zionism, President Bush, and the materialistic Americans. Only recently has he even attampted to offer anything substantial. Since he's upped the ante, I'll make my response public.


Dear Muslim Anonymous,

Muslim anonymous will be MA and I will be PM.

MA: Allah or God in Islam is merciful. He tells us in the holy books especially in the Holy Quran that he forgives all sins except ascribing to Him

PM: What holy books? If Allah spoke in the taurat, as you admit, then what do you make of his claim that there is NO REMISSION OF SIN WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD? The problem here is that throughout the old testament we read, over an over again, that there can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood (Lev. 17:11; Eze. 18:4;).

For God to be just he must punish sin. Why did "Allah" require these bloody rituals in the Tauraut? Why do people in hell get their sins punished but people in heaven don't? How can guilty people escape punishment? If a judge in court today did not punish a law breaker we would cry, "A great injustice has been done!" So when God doesn't punish your sins, how has an injustice not been done?

Why did Allah say this?

Isa.53

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

How do you interpret that?

MA: "If I have sins, and I do, only God can question me and therefore He only knows if I will go to heaven or not."


PM: I didn't ask you whether God know you'll go to heaven. That's an uninteresting claim to tell us that an all-knowing being knows something.

I asked how you can know that you're going to heaven.

I also asked you on what basis you can say that Allah will allow you to stay in heaven?

MA: "But in the Holy Quran and even the tampered-with bible He promises those who don't ascribe mercy and Heavens."

PM: Despite the fact that I don't understand this sentence, why would you say the Bible has been tampered with? What proof do you have of this? And, an embarrassing sura for the Muslim is sura 10:94.. In this sura we read:

"But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.”

What we have here, then, is Muhammad telling people who doubted the veracity of his teachings to ask those who had the book before him (Jews and Christians) if what he was teaching was true. The problem here is that since the texts we have today are substantially the same as the manuscripts circulating in Muhammad's day, we would have Muhammad directing questioners to a corrupted text! If the Bible had been corrupted then why would Muhammad send his followers to verify his teachings from a corrupted text? This sura, then, testifies to an uncorrupted Bible.

This is not some isolated text, either. The Qur'an claims "Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realize this not, ask of those who posses the message” (sura 21:7). But those who “possessed the message” back then just happened “to posses” the same “message” that we posses today. There is simply not one shred of evidence testifying that a Bible completely foreign to the Bible we posses today was the Bible used by Christians in Muhammad’s day.

MA: "To those who asked about the Hadith and the Holy Quran or question them let's see the facts. Historians cannot even authenticate the existence of Prophet Jesus [GPUH] and let's be objective about it."


PM: There's some huge problems here:

i. Sorry if I don't take your word for it that historians cannot even authenticate the existence of Jesus. Do you have any actual arguments to back this claim up?

ii. Your argument is fallacious. You can't defend your books by pointing to (supposed) errors in other books. For even if I can't authenticate the existence of Jesus that does not magically take away the problems I raised for the Qur'an.

iii. Really, I don't think you've even attempted to read what I wrote in my post on Islam.

MA: "How is it logical that God leaves the whole universe without a ruler and comes down on a tiny planet that might not count in His eyes or is, with all it's contents, more tiny than ant to us just to let a bunch of crooks kick him around and humiliate him, and at the end murder him?"

PM: Well, you're confusing being able to understand something with it's being illogical. Show me the laws of logic violated by the hypostatic union.

Secondly, you show the typical Muslim ignorance and confusion. When the second person the trinity took on a human nature, that does not mean there was no God at the time.

Third, the Bible tells why God would let a "couple of crooks kick him around."

Isa.53

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due?

9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Who is this man called ?

Isa. 9

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.

Who sits upon the throne of David?

What do the "inspired apostles" (sura 21:7)say about Jesus?

Luke 2:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;

MA: "What mercy is in that for us? How did such illogical sequence of fictional events clean our sins?

PM: The mercy is that the "iniquity" was laid upon Jesus and not us, where it should have been laid. Where is your iniquity laid upon?

Second, show how this "sequence of events" is "illogical."

Third, why does "Allah" say? "WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION." Jesus' blood was shed, therefore, there is remission. Now, I've given a logical argument. Tell me, if you can, how can your sins be cleansed, and Allah still remain holy.

MA: "Such stuff can only be found in cartoons. Humanity needs a more convincing story."


PM: What, like the story in the hadiths that Satan farts so he won't hear the call to prayer? Or, maybe you meant the story that tells us that Satan stays in our noses at night? Or perhaps you were thinking of the Qur’anic miracle that says Muhammad cut the moon in half with a sword?

MA: "If this story was true, then why nothing has changed? What in humanity's or earth's norm has changed? Tell me facts."

PM: This is pretty vague? This rhetorical question, beggs the question! People have been forgiven. They've been brought from death to life. Jesus did what Adam couldn't, thus imputing his righteousness to us. That's why "Allah" said this about Him,

Jer. 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: 'The LORD is our righteousness.'

All power has been given to Jesus. His name is above all names. He's the final revelation from God (cf. Hebrews 1). Plenty has changed.

The Bible needed to be given in the vulgar languages so people could hear about Jesus, this eventually led to the invention of the printing press.

People needed to learn how to read and think so that they could understand the Bible and read it for themselves. They needed to learn how to exposit the Bible, the original languages, and how to apply logic to it, this led to the institution of the Universities.

Read, for example, "What if Jesus had never been born" by D. James Kennedy. Plenty has "changed" because of Jesus.

MA: "Islam says there is this One God who send reminders to all of humanity in different forms and shapes."


PM: Yeah, and I showed how this claim was the death nail for Islam. The Bible contradicts the Qur'an, thus "Allah" contradicts himself. If you say the bible has been corrupted, then your argument is with Muhhammad in sura 10:94, not me.

MA: "It says that who wants salvation needs to work for it added to believing in God."

PM: How can you ever be sure you've done enough work?

How can you force God to reward you for your work. What if he decides to up the bar just before you die? How can you be sure that even if you do the work Allah will reward you, he's not just. If he's just then he must punish your sins.

Lastly, why would "Allah" accept your works. For he says through the prophet Isaiah,

"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6)

Don't you see? Allah himself, according to you, says that all your good works are considered as filthy before him!

God tells us that "if we keep his commandments" then we can dwell with him. He doesn't say that if we keep some of his commandments we can dwell with him and he‘ll let the others slide! God is perfect and requires perfection. His eyes are too holy to look upon sin. If you break some commandments, you pay the price!

MA: "God has set these rules and He is the first One to respect them and enforce them."

PM: God has not only set the rules, but he has set the punishment for the rules! If he does not always punish sin how can you say he "respects" and "enforces" the rules? Who pays the punishment for your (admitted) sin? Remember, "Allah" said that WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION."

MA: "Not all the jesuses or muhammeds in the world can save you."

PM: Oh, but you and your filthy works can save you?

MA: "If jesus was god and the salvation then what about the people before jesus? Who saved them?"

PM: What about them? They were saved the same way as people are saved today. The old testament sacrifices were foreshadows of Christ's sacrifice. They looked ahead to Christ, we look back.

The "inspired" apostles say this,

"By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward" (Heb 11:24-26).

Indeed, the Old Testament spoke of Jesus. Since you believe Jesus was a prophet, and prophets cannot lie, then here's what your prophet says of the Taurat, Psalms, and prophets,

Luke 24: 26 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

So, was Jesus lying? If so, then the Qur’an is wrong. If not, then the Qur’an is wrong.

If you say this is part of a corrupted text then (a) the burden is on you to show this and (b) your argument is with Muhammad who in sura 10:94 says that the text was not corrupted.

MA: "If God's plan for us was to be one nation and believe the same thing then why are we different?If there was only one way for salvation then why is it only a bunch of drunks get it?! What about the other nations?

PM: Who said that "God wants us to be one nation and believe the same thing?" Why do you attack straw men?

There is only one way of salvation.

It is false to say that "only drunks are getting in." Murderers, gang members, adulterers, hypocrites, self-righteous folk, thieves, and every other kind of criminal in God's universe, is getting in!

Jesus came to save sinners, not the righteous. You can trust in your own works, "but as for me and my house, we'll trust in Jesus." It is He who is "the author and finisher of our faith."