Sunday, July 16, 2006

Can't we all just get along?


Daniel Morgan said:

Can't we all just get along...

Oh, wait, if we believe in a "god-ordained" antithesis, then I guess not.

I'm up here in Buffalo NY at the CFI Student Leadership Conference on secular humanism. It's kind of funny in how I felt in reading over this thread, and the comments, and having gone to meetings today where we discussed the need to be polite and respectful and even try to connect with those who disagree with us (esp Campus Crusade), to get the issues out before people.

We want more people to hear dissenting and alternative explanations to the worldview of traditional Western theism. Calling them names, and belittling their intellect, is not the best way to get them to seriously dialogue. It's just funny that as a bunch of "godless heathens" up here in Buffalo, we aren't talking about "answering the fools according to their folly" with respect to theists.


Why are christians stupid?

The Christian, Muslim, Jew Supremacist

"Talking with Creationists" Discussion Thread


  1. Do you really think your readers come here to read this kind of personal bashing kind of stuff? Hmmmm. What kind of people do you think they are?

  2. The question at issue is not what kind of people my readers are, but what kind of people you and Danny are.

    I realize that you don't like it when people like me hold people like you to your own words.

    Danny made a self-serving claim and drew an invidious contrast that is belied by the facts--from his own chosen frame of reference.

    Maybe he didn't know any better at the time he said it, but now he does.

  3. I'm not sure what I now "know better". I was not aware of the existence of these forums at the time that I wrote that, and I was certainly thus not aware that some persons had written titles to the forum with those insults.

    What in the heck does that have to do with what I said? Nothing. The persons who came to this conference are serious about promoting the core values of the Enlightenment/secular humanism, and engaging in dialogues and debates with theists in order to show alternative views and perspectives to those who may be convinced that they do not exist.

    The fact that apparently didn't occur to you is that these forums are PUBLIC. You do NOT have to be a member of the CFI to start threads, and the CFI does not believe in censorship of speech. Obviously, some persons, be they atheists, humanists, religionists, theists, etc., resort to insults. These persons do not want to dialogue. So?

    My point was that as a bunch of atheists, we still came to a unanimous agreement that we should NOT "answer a fool according to his folly", and that we truly want a dialogue and a public voice to contrast with the (overheard) well-voiced views and values of theists.

    Now, exactly how have you "held me to my own words"? I didn't lie. We were indeed discussing what I said, and I we all agreed to exactly what I said.

    Now Steve, as an intelligent person, I think you would not be so naive as to consider the public forum of the CFI as the official views or values of the CFI, or of secular humanism in general. I am sure that you do not. Therefore, I find it rather dishonest that you go digging through a public forum to find material that supposedly contradicts what I said when I made the implicit depracation of your tactics. The official position of the CFI is one of respect and the desire to conduct dialogue with those whom we deem "cultural competitors". We do not deem you, as you do us, "eternally damned".

    You made a self-serving claim as well--a quite clear one: you claim that I am somehow proven wrong by the existence of persons who DO think Christians are stupid and who DO NOT want to debate them in an open forum with respect and civility. The fact remains undisturbed, Steve, that the day that you were "answering a fool according to his folly", we were commenting on the quite unfoolish theists we had met, very intelligent persons such as Plantinga and Swinburne, and how many atheists are much less intelligent than many theists, and how making sweeping generalizations was always a recipe for disaster.

    Belied from the facts? No. Hardly.

    What kind of person am I, Steve? I'd love to know. Apparently, whatever I am, John is too. The only thing I am aware of that we share is a lack of faith in the existence of a deity. I would love for you to point out to (us) me what else it is that we apparently have in common.

    Maybe you didn't know any better than to make the remark that you did, but now you do.