I realize this is largely a waste of time for many people. Talking about the history of the state of Israel with Zionist Dispensationalists is as useful as talking about the history of the Bible with King James Onlyists...In short, no meaningful discussion will take place over the primary issues because one side is simply incapable of putting emotions, tradition, and knee-jerk reactions aside.
Jamin Hubner: Towering intellectual
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Charles Lee Feinberg: Hayseed Bible-thumper
Charles Feinberg was born in Pittsburgh to orthodox Jewish parents. At age 17 he went to the University of Pittsburgh, which he completed in three years with a major in history and a quadruple minor in English, French, German, and Psychology.
Still a high achiever, in his three years at Dallas he ran through three degrees in theology, a bachelors, a masters, and a doctorate. More precisely, he earned a ThB and a ThM, but also completed all the course work for a ThD. The school agreed to give him the doctorate if he wrote the dissertation and spent one more year in residence (summa cum laude, May 1935). Writing the dissertation was no problem, and he spent part of the remaining year teaching church history.
In 1935 Feinberg began teaching Hebrew in the seminary of the Evangelical Theological College until 1945. During his decade of teaching he earned an MA in history from Southern Methodist University in 1943, and a PhD in Semitic Languages from Johns Hopkins in 1945, under William F. Albright.
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ReplyDeleteIn before someone who doesn't get the comparison you're making and claims you're just ad hom'ing Hubner.
ReplyDelete(The phrase “In before” means to post before likely anticipated content or predictable user behavior.)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThat has nothing to do with this current post, which is pointing out the fallacy of Hubner's claim that supposed Zionists are a bunch of mouthbreathers while Hubner is intellectual gold.
ReplyDeleteWhat I was implying is that someone will claim that by pointing out Hubner's fallacy, Steve is just insulting Hubner's resume. The point flying completely over their head.
That's a pretty unimpressive resume.
ReplyDeleteSo we have another "Instant Expert" it seems. Give a boy some book learnin' and an Internet connection and voila! "Instant Expert"!
I'm sure Van Til would be very proud of you, Jamin.
For some reason a verse about knowledge puffing up comes to mind.
In Him,
CD
As far as Christian apologetics ministries go, James White and AO ministries have been known for their snobbishness and cheap shots, but Steve, you take this to a whole new level. I never thought I'd say this but compared to Steve and the rest of the dudes at Triablogue, the AO ministries crew are nice guys.
ReplyDeleteMike said:
ReplyDeleteAs far as Christian apologetics ministries go, James White and AO ministries have been known for their snobbishness and cheap shots, but Steve, you take this to a whole new level. I never thought I'd say this but compared to Steve and the rest of the dudes at Triablogue, the AO ministries crew are nice guys.
To my knowledge, most "the rest of the dudes at Triablogue" haven't publicly said anything one way or the other about any of this. If so, then not only does Mike commit the guilt by association fallacy, but he also defames the rest of the Triablogue team. Or to put it another way, this is a "cheap shot" from Mike against "the dudes at Triablogue." Hyprocisy, thy name is Mike!
Also, Mike, nice how you defame Steve Hays (and the rest of the Triablogue team) and James White (and the rest of the AOMin team) without actually providing any evidence for either.
ReplyDelete@Nicholas Leone:
ReplyDelete"Dispensationalism is responsible for the anti-Lordship teaching:"
To the same extent that Calvinism is "responsible for" double predestination.
i.e., it would seem you're missing the "hyper" modifier. Outliers and extremists do not represent a mainstream perspective.
double predestination (properly defined) in not necessarily a hyper-calvinist position.
ReplyDeleteMIKE SAID:
ReplyDelete"As far as Christian apologetics ministries go, James White and AO ministries have been known for their snobbishness and cheap shots, but Steve, you take this to a whole new level. I never thought I'd say this but compared to Steve and the rest of the dudes at Triablogue, the AO ministries crew are nice guys."
Try to learn the nature of a tu quoque argument. I'm merely responding to Hubner on his own terms, for the sake of argument. I'm just giving him a dose of his own medicine.
Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteThat's an overstatement. Yes, there's a a fringe group of Dispensationalists who advocate antinomianism.
However, one of the best-known dispensationalists is also one of the best-known critics of the anti-Lordship position: John MacArthur.
@Matt Burke:
ReplyDelete"double predestination (properly defined) in not necessarily a hyper-calvinist position."
And antinomianism is not necessarily a dispy position either. Sort of my point.
Are you on some kind of medication Steve? Do the elders at your church really let you get away with such brutal obvious non-Christian posting without a mention? If so, they do you no favors.
ReplyDeleteNo Christian ought to talk this way, argue this way, or think this way.
You will say to me "I'm giving him a taste of his own medicine" but that is not what Jesus commanded His followers to do. Consider an apology in order.
Phil said:
ReplyDeleteAre you on some kind of medication Steve?
Hm, this is an insinuation that Steve is either mentally unstable or on illicit drugs. But unless you're somehow privy to this kind of info, you don't know that he is. If you don't know that he is, then why do you insinuate this about a brother in Christ?
No Christian ought to talk this way, argue this way, or think this way.
Please spell it out for people. In what "way" did Steve violate biblical ethics?
You will say to me "I'm giving him a taste of his own medicine" but that is not what Jesus commanded His followers to do.
Doesn't the Bible sometimes permit "giving [someone] a taste of his own medicine"? For example, Prov 26:5: "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes."
Consider an apology in order.
Sorry but I think it's unfair to demand an apology without specifically explaining what wrong Steve did. Please consider presenting reasoned argumentation for how Steve has violated biblical ethics in this post.
Phil said:
ReplyDeleteYou will say to me "I'm giving him a taste of his own medicine" but that is not what Jesus commanded His followers to do.
It would only violate passages like Matthew 5:38-42 if Steve Hays was out to issue some kind of petty revenge. There is, however, a kind of rebuke that is meant to restore someone, rather than tear him down. If that fails, there is also a rebuke meant to persuade a public audience and use someone's foolish behavior as a warning to others who are aware of the situation. You don't seem to give an attempt to distinguish between these or demonstrate that Steve Hays is violating passages like Matthew 5:38-42.
Patrick Chan mentioned Proverbs. The wisdom literature often employs methods of (what it deems) "loving" correction that we find uncomfortable in our (in)sensitive, individualistic society. The sages of Israel, however, understood that it is loving to chastise, even publicly, certain kinds of disruptive behavior in individuals, since such behavior was often ruinous not only to the offender, but the whole of the community as well.
Phil said:
ReplyDeleteAre you on some kind of medication Steve? Do the elders at your church really let you get away with such brutal obvious non-Christian posting without a mention? If so, they do you no favors.
No Christian ought to talk this way, argue this way, or think this way.
You will say to me "I'm giving him a taste of his own medicine" but that is not what Jesus commanded His followers to do. Consider an apology in order.
Also, Phil, I'm sorry to have to write this, but if you can't reasonably back up your accusations against Steve, if indeed they're unfounded accusations, then perhaps you might owe him an apology for making these sorts of unfounded accusations in the first place (e.g. "Are you on some kind of medication Steve?").