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Showing posts with label Jehovah's Witnesses/Arianism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jehovah's Witnesses/Arianism. Show all posts
Thursday, May 23, 2019
Sunday, September 09, 2018
The image of the invisible God
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together (Col 1:15-17).
This passage came up in a debate with a Jehovah's Witness. I was asked to comment on the following statement:
His argument (i.e. the Christian apologist) was that since Jesus is the image of the invisible God, He must be God since only a divine being can be a divine copy of God. The Jehovah's Witness responded that by definition no copy will be exact. And so Jesus didn't have to be divine to be a copy. And so there is no real argument from being a copy.
1. "The image of the invisible God" doesn't all by itself imply deity, although I'll return to that phrase momentarily.
2. In the larger context, this passage presents the Son as the uncreated Creator in Gen 1. Indeed, it's even stronger than Gen 1 because:
i) It makes creation ex nihilo explicit, whereas that's implicit in Gen 1.
ii) It makes the Creator the maker of the invisible as well as visible realm. Angels as well as physical beings.
So the Creator God of Col 1:15-17 is even more absolute than the initial revelation of Yahweh in Gen 1.
3. In addition, 1:19 & 2:9 accentuate the deity and Incarnation of the Son.
4. To be the image of the invisible God involves a contrast between the discarnate Father and the incarnate Son.
5. A copy and a representation aren't interchangeable concepts. While every copy is representational, not every representation is a copy. For instance:
i) Humans exhibit bilateral symmetry, so the left side mirrors the right side and vice versa. However, the left side is not a copy of the right side, or vice versa. It's not an original/copy relation.
ii) Identical twins mirror each other, but one twin is not a copy of his brother. It's not an original/copy relation.
iii) Da Vinci painted two versions of the Virgin of the Rocks. Both are originals.
iv) A bank account number can appear in a different font. So they don't exactly resemble each other. Yet each representation is exactly the name account number. The abstract content is the same.
6. There's a like-reveals-like principle. The more that B is like A, the more B reveals what A is really like. To be the definitive "image" of the Father, the Son must be maximally similiar while remaining distinct from the Father. But that's far above a creature.
Friday, December 27, 2013
Thursday, January 07, 2010
Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium
I. Introduction
We are Roman Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses who have been led through prayer, study, and discussion to common convictions about Christian faith and mission. This statement cannot speak officially for our communities. It does intend to speak responsibly from our communities and to our communities. In this statement we address what we have discovered both about our unity and about our differences. We are aware that our experience reflects the distinctive circumstances and opportunities of Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses living together in North America. At the same time, we believe that what we have discovered and resolved is pertinent to the relationship between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses in other parts of the world. We therefore commend this statement to their prayerful consideration.
As the Second Millennium draws to a close, the Christian mission in world history faces a moment of daunting opportunity and responsibility. If in the merciful and mysterious ways of God the Second Coming is delayed, we enter upon a Third Millennium that could be, in the words of Charles Taze Russell, "a springtime of world missions." (The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom)
As Christ is one, so the Christian mission is one. That one mission can be and should be advanced in diverse ways. Legitimate diversity, however, should not be confused with existing divisions between Christians that obscure the one Christ and hinder the one mission. There is a necessary connection between the visible unity of Christians and the mission of the one Christ. We together pray for the fulfillment of the prayer of Our Lord: "May they all be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, so also may they be in us, that the one, may believe that you sent me." (John 17) We together, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, confess our sins against the unity that Christ intends for all his disciples.
While we are gratefully aware of ongoing efforts to address tensions among these communities, the shameful reality is that, in many places around the world, the scandal of conflict between Christians obscures the scandal of the cross, thus crippling the one mission of the one Christ.
The mission that we embrace together is the necessary consequence of the faith that we affirm together.
II. We Affirm Together
Jesus Christ is Lord.
Unless he's the Archangel Michael.
Either affirmation is rationally defensible.
That is the first and final affirmation and counter-affirmation that Christians make about all of reality.
It's plausible to believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
It's plausible to believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
It's also plausible to believe in Jesus Christ, the first creature.
A fully informed person of good will, with knowledge of the languages, could affirm either reading of Scripture.
III. Signatories
Bryan Cross
Francis Beckwith
Michael Liccione
We are Roman Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses who have been led through prayer, study, and discussion to common convictions about Christian faith and mission. This statement cannot speak officially for our communities. It does intend to speak responsibly from our communities and to our communities. In this statement we address what we have discovered both about our unity and about our differences. We are aware that our experience reflects the distinctive circumstances and opportunities of Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses living together in North America. At the same time, we believe that what we have discovered and resolved is pertinent to the relationship between Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses in other parts of the world. We therefore commend this statement to their prayerful consideration.
As the Second Millennium draws to a close, the Christian mission in world history faces a moment of daunting opportunity and responsibility. If in the merciful and mysterious ways of God the Second Coming is delayed, we enter upon a Third Millennium that could be, in the words of Charles Taze Russell, "a springtime of world missions." (The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom)
As Christ is one, so the Christian mission is one. That one mission can be and should be advanced in diverse ways. Legitimate diversity, however, should not be confused with existing divisions between Christians that obscure the one Christ and hinder the one mission. There is a necessary connection between the visible unity of Christians and the mission of the one Christ. We together pray for the fulfillment of the prayer of Our Lord: "May they all be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, so also may they be in us, that the one, may believe that you sent me." (John 17) We together, Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses, confess our sins against the unity that Christ intends for all his disciples.
While we are gratefully aware of ongoing efforts to address tensions among these communities, the shameful reality is that, in many places around the world, the scandal of conflict between Christians obscures the scandal of the cross, thus crippling the one mission of the one Christ.
The mission that we embrace together is the necessary consequence of the faith that we affirm together.
II. We Affirm Together
Jesus Christ is Lord.
Unless he's the Archangel Michael.
Either affirmation is rationally defensible.
That is the first and final affirmation and counter-affirmation that Christians make about all of reality.
It's plausible to believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
It's plausible to believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
It's also plausible to believe in Jesus Christ, the first creature.
A fully informed person of good will, with knowledge of the languages, could affirm either reading of Scripture.
III. Signatories
Bryan Cross
Francis Beckwith
Michael Liccione
Monday, March 03, 2008
Help With Atheists and Arians
HT: Justin Taylor
Help! The Arians are making their rounds. Seriously, I've had two visits at my house in the past three weeks. Boy, don't they get a surprise.
Anyhoo, I highly recommend you click the above link and listen to these lectures. These will give you so help
with the Arians whens they come knocking on your door.
Also, the first three are foundational for Gathercole's book The Preexistent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
That should also be of help with stock atheistic objections to the divinity of Christ which they derive from the Synoptics.
Help! The Arians are making their rounds. Seriously, I've had two visits at my house in the past three weeks. Boy, don't they get a surprise.
Anyhoo, I highly recommend you click the above link and listen to these lectures. These will give you so help
with the Arians whens they come knocking on your door.
Also, the first three are foundational for Gathercole's book The Preexistent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
That should also be of help with stock atheistic objections to the divinity of Christ which they derive from the Synoptics.
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