Sunday, December 16, 2012

Huckabee on the Newtown massacre

Mike Huckabee’s response to a reporter’s question about the Newtown massacre has been reviled by the liberal media, the religious left, and atheist bloggers. However, Jerry Walls, on Facebook, does a good job of putting Huckabee’s statement in context.

Jerry Walls
Yesterday
CONNECTICUT....


I just heard the tragic news out of Connecticut and turned on the TV to hear Mike Huckabee make an astute, but sad observation. The reporter asked him where God was in all this. Huckabee noted that is an odd question given that we have removed God from our schools and want nothing to do with Him and the notion of ultimate accountability for acts like this one.

    Jerry Walls Well, of course, God cannot be literally removed, but students can be, and are, educated as if He does not exist. I do not want to draw any simplistic connections here, but in the long run, you cannot deny or ignore the ultimate foundation of morality, and indeed meaning, without this having profound and far reaching consequences.

    Jerry Walls Thomas Senor, I'd say that is unfair to Huckabee. His point, I take it, is that there is something profoundly inconsistent in wondering where God is in times like this, yet utterly ignoring him, if not outright denying him otherwise. If there is serious intent to the question, God cannot be rationally ignored and trivialized the rest of the time.

    Jerry Walls Well Joshua Toepper and Thomas Senor and Jeremy James, in fairness to Huckabee, he went on to say that God would be there in the form of lots of people showing love, in the form of counselors who would try to make sense of this for the children and so on. So I only cited part of his quote. So perhaps you should be upset more with me than with him!

    Jerry Walls No, I think he made a valid point that it is odd to wonder where God is in moments like this while assuming otherwise He either does not exist or is utterly irrelevant.
   
    Jerry Walls Noting incoherence is not merely chastisement. He went on to make the positive point in addition to noting the implicit incoherence.

    Jerry Walls Zach, I think his point was just there is a profound inconsistency in invoking God in matters like this, but utterly denying and ignoring him the rest of the time.
   
    Jerry Walls Just got back from the gym, and while there, I recalled another important point Huckabee made, namely, that what we are dealing with here is ultimately a matter of the human heart, and that no legal or political measure can remedy that.

    Jerry Walls Well, I'm sure he did not mean to imply that laws are futile, in fact, I am sure he believes not only in law, but in God as the ultimate foundation of law. But his point was just that there is something deeply irrational about such behavior that no legal measures can eliminate.

    Jerry Walls Zach, I think it may have been a bit of both. And if he meant it in the latter way, the general point that I would argue is correct is that if we take God seriously, we do have both grounds to make sense of morality as well as motivation to be moral that is utterly lacking when God is left out of the picture. That hardly means of course, that all problems are solved by invoking God.

    Jerry Walls Certainly it is reasonable to wonder where God is in a tragedy even if you think no religion should be favored. But historically speaking, education in America was not functionally atheistic, indeed, it was based implicitly if not explicitly on a Christian worldview. Now, education is not merely neutral religiously, it is functionally atheistic. It means little to nothing to say students can pray if they want to, while God is never mentioned in history class, or chemistry, or biology class. When the whole education proceeds as if God either does not exist, or is irrelevant, that is the overwhelming message that is being sent. Even considering the possibility that biology might be studied in a way that includes the option, among others, that the world was designed by God is resisted with ferocious intensity. God MUST NOT be discussed as a serious reality in contemporary education. So in that sense, God is excluded. We cannot of course make God small, but we can act like he is, and proceed as if he is and make a small to vanishing place for him in how we think and live. And when we do, yes, there is something odd about suddenly asking where he is.

    Jerry Walls My experience was similar to yours Tom, but I think secularism is far more aggressive today and our culture at large is much more post-Christian. Secular education is more deliberately non-religious and resistant to any consideration of God. I agree that the issue is not one of protection by God, but a culture that lacks any coherent vision of moral education and the meaning of life is ill equipped to form its students in the ways of virtue and character. And that is bound to have consequences eventually.

    Jerry Walls And Brian, my guess is that if Huckabee were on the scene with those grieving people, he would be hugging them, praying with them and comforting them. But his role on a national TV show offering commentary is a different role than that of pastor, though he did include some pastoral points in his remarks.
  Jerry Walls Yes, our President gets choked up about this, but supports partial birth abortion. 

11 comments:

  1. I was thinking how God is more real in all that happens than we are. Although we live by faith, this doesn't make God less genuine who He is. And He has revealed Himself to us in Jesus, through the Scriptures. Thank You Lord.

    And, Lord, please bless as only You can in this sad situation of children being killed. Amen.

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  2. It doesn't matter what the culture thinks. Jesus came to save individuals - not cultures or governments. Christians shouldn't worry about what's taught in schools. They should just continue to teach the Bible in their churches and homes. Kids are smart enough to take it all in perspective. You don't need the government to tell you to love God, and you don't stop loving God just because Hollywood makes rude movies. None of this pervading culture is important because the spirit is within you, not out there in the world. Just keep these things in your heart and ponder them in fellowship with other believers.

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    1. John Moore

      "It doesn't matter what the culture thinks. Jesus came to save individuals - not cultures or governments. Christians shouldn't worry about what's taught in schools. They should just continue to teach the Bible in their churches and homes."

      i) If you think what kids, as a captive audience, are told 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 9 months out of the year, from age 5 to 18, can't spiritually poison their impressionable young minds during their formative years, then you're just a soft-headed fool.

      ii) Moreover, a lot students don't have the luxury of returning to a Christian home every day after school.

      iii) Furthermore, if you just sit on your thumbs, gov't won't allow you to teach your kids the Bible at home or in church.

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    2. You need to stop worrying about other people's kids and just take care of your own. If a kid doesn't return from school to a Christian home, that's fine. Not every family is a Christian family, and you should just relax and accept that.

      Also, you seem to think the public school curriculum teaches spiritual poison, but that's not true at all. Get real.

      I'm not sitting on my thumbs. I'm fighting now to keep Christian propaganda out of our diverse public schools, but if anyone tries to ban Christianity from churches and homes, I'll fight at your side then. Thankfully we have a strong U.S. Constitution, and there's no realistic threat to free worship. Get real.

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    3. John Moore said:

      "You need to stop worrying about other people's kids and just take care of your own. If a kid doesn't return from school to a Christian home, that's fine. Not every family is a Christian family, and you should just relax and accept that."

      Why don't you take your own advice then and mind your own business? Yet you're the one who's telling people what to do or what not to do here.

      "Also, you seem to think the public school curriculum teaches spiritual poison, but that's not true at all. Get real."

      So the direct or indirect promotion of secularism, religious pluralism, identity politics, homosexuality, abortion, and neo-Darwinism (to name a few) in our schools isn't "spiritual poison" in one way or another?

      Just check out what's promoted at some San Francisco Bay Area schools.

      Likewise, though a bit dated, it's still helpful to check out the late Jacques Barzun's work on education.

      "I'm fighting now to keep Christian propaganda out of our diverse public schools..."

      So you're fighting to keep Christianity out of public schools, but you don't fight against keeping secular propaganda out of public schools. I see where your real allegiance is.

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    4. Would you have a problem if you saw elementary school teachers or librarians reading or loaning books like Heather Has Two Mommies or Daddy's Roommate to kids?

      By the way, I'm a Teach for America alum. I taught math to junior high schoolers. Likewise my sister was too. In fact, she was one of TFA's leaders. She's still a current educator. So I have a lot of first and second hand experience with public education.

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    5. John Moore

      "You need to stop worrying about other people's kids and just take care of your own."

      False dichotomy. The fact that we have a greater responsibility for our own kids doesn't mean we have no responsibility for the well-being of anyone else's kids. Your callous indifference to the plight of non-Christian children is hateful and unchristian.

      "If a kid doesn't return from school to a Christian home, that's fine."

      It's not fine for him to have a godless, aimless, hopeless existence.

      "Not every family is a Christian family, and you should just relax and accept that."

      You're talking like a fatalist.

      "Also, you seem to think the public school curriculum teaches spiritual poison, but that's not true at all. Get real."

      You need to take off your blindfold.

      "I'm not sitting on my thumbs. I'm fighting now to keep Christian propaganda out of our diverse public schools, but if anyone tries to ban Christianity from churches and homes, I'll fight at your side then. Thankfully we have a strong U.S. Constitution, and there's no realistic threat to free worship. Get real."

      You will show up on the battlefield after the battle is lost.

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  3. "Not every family is a Christian family, and you should just relax and accept that."

    He's right. We shouldn't preach the Gospel to that family or teach them all that Jesus commanded.

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  4. Why is John Moore’s comment to “just take care of your own” criticized as “hateful and unchristian,” while B. C. Hodge’s article (A Challenge to Charitable Christians) that states, “But the truth is that Christians need to get a reign [sic] on irrational emotion and realize that giving to that [non-Christian] child means you are letting a child of Christ die instead” is given a link on Triablogue?

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    1. i) To begin with, I already said that I thought Hodge somewhat overstated his case. Pay attention.

      ii) In addition, charity is a limited resource in a way that evangelism is not. A Christian ought to be compassionate about the plight of the lost, for he himself was a lost soul before God saved him. So he should wish to rescue others from the same fate. As such, we ought to be concerned with the spiritual condition of non-Christian kids. We should practice friendship evangelism. We should organize Bible clubs in schools. That doesn't involve major financial resources.

      By contrast, the demand for charity greatly outstrips the supply. Christians only have so much disposable income. Many Christian families live from paycheck to paycheck.

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  5. Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

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