Nearly a decade ago, a book was published on UFOs and related phenomena by Hugh Ross, Kenneth Samples, and Mark Clark. The book is Lights In The Sky And Little Green Men (Colorado Springs, Colorado: NavPress, 2002). It argues, among other things, that a small percentage of UFO reports, claims of alien abduction, and related phenomena are credible and are best explained as demonic. I read the book, but I wasn't aware that Ross' ministry, Reasons To Believe, produced a video on the subject along with Stand To Reason. Earlier today, I saw a link to the video on YouTube from the Stand To Reason blog.
This is a subject I haven't studied much. And I didn't agree with everything in the book cited above. But I thought it made a lot of good points, and what little I know of this subject does suggest to me that a small percentage of what's being reported is demonic or supernatural in some other sense. I also agree with Ross regarding the high unlikelihood that any aliens, if they exist, would visit this planet.
Well, of course, anyone with a lick of sense believes in UFO's. That being Unidentified Flying Objects.
ReplyDelete...and the only flying saucers I've seen were the ones the Mrs. threw at me when I ticked her off one day.
Jason - check out the documentary Out of the Blue:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Out-Blue-Definitive-Investigation-Phenomenon/dp/B0000VD0RO
It is packed with interviews, documentation, and footage revolving around reports from high-ranking military personel, airplane pilots, and public officials (including governors and former presidents). This is just a great documentary, no matter where you stand on the issue. Apparently Shermer has called this one of the best presentations of the evidence on film.
It does not deal with the abduction phenomena at all though. After watching this video and looking into the individual accounts further on my own, I think there's definitely something very real going on here. Whether it is litle green men flying these things, or there's just some really advanced military technology (that other divisions of the military are not even aware of), I don't know.
As far as demonic considerations, I've heard alot of speculation here. Alot of the abduction experiences involve sexual exams, extraction of sperm/eggs, and viewings of hybrid alien/human babies -- even revisiting these hybrids in subsequent abductions and watching them grow up. I've even seen Christians draw parallels between this and the "fallen angel" interpretation of Genesis 6. Does Ross go that route?
ReplyDeleteClearly, there are transcendent/paranormal elements to these experiences - people float through walls and windows into the UFO, there is telepathic communication, etc. A good interdisciplinary study of the abduction phenomena is _UFOs & Abductions: Challenging the Borders of Knoweldge_. It has essays from many different angles, by both beleivers and skeptics through the lense of various fields - psychology, neuroscience, folklore, etc. Jacobs, the editor, has since become a full-fledged beliver in the veridicality of the experiences.
Alex Dalton,
ReplyDeleteI don't remember Ross or any of the co-authors making an appeal to Genesis 6. And they do address some issues that the video you recommended apparently doesn't address, namely abduction phenomena and the likelihood that aliens would be involved. They also address the possibility of government involvement. One of the authors, Mark Clark, is a professor of political science at California State University. He's interviewed in the video I linked.
Gary Bates has done much better research in this area than Ross and his group. His book, Alien Intrusions, is extremely well done and he covers the major stories of modern day UFO mythos. His material can be accessed HERE
ReplyDeleteIf you (generic "you") Google the subject by combining search terms like ufos+old hag syndrome, or alien abduction+old hag syndrome, you'll pull up results like these:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&&sa=X&ei=oY08TaP3NY2RgQf0-6mhCA&ved=0CBsQBSgA&q=ufos,+old+hag+syndrome&spell=1
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=alien+abduction,+old+hag+syndrome&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
It's striking to see the link between reported ufos/alien abductions and old hag syndrome.
A somewhat tendentious synonym for old hag syndrome is sleep paralysis with awareness (or ASP).
A naturalistic explanation for reported alien abductions and old hag syndrome is that both phenomena are hypnagogic hallucinations.
On the other hand, that naturalistic explanation may prejudge or beg the question. Is it a real explanation, or is it just a descriptive label?
Old hag syndrome certainly invites a demonic interpretation. Indeed, this probably lies behind the incubus/succubus tradition.
Moreover, altered psychological/physiological states like sleep paralysis could just as well lower a natural barrier to encounters with the spirit world. Is sleep paralysis the real explanation, or does it simply place the subject in a receptive/vulnerable state for encounters with the spirit world?
I'm inclined to think old hag syndrome is the true explanation. That "abductees" are reinterpreting their experience in science-fiction categories.
And I'm inclined to think old hag syndrome is demonic.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteI actually had a friend with "old hag syndrome", and he used to sleep over and have the experiences. I remember him waking up paralyzed and screaming "Who's there??? Who is it??". Its funny because he was a really bad dude - the toughest guy I have ever known, always beating people up, downing hardcore drugs, afraid of nothing...Then to see him in that vulnerable state. He was like a child. Perhaps others do, but he never actually hallucinated. It was just a sense of presence. In this guy's case, I'd have no problem believing it was demonic. His whole family (even the atheist dad) would tell stories of hauntings that have been in their family for generations. One, in particular, is one of the craziest haunting stories I have ever heard, and his extremely skeptical atheistic dad attested to all of it.
Anyway - here's the problem I have with this as an explanation. Abductees often have the experience while they are not on the brink of sleep, and often right after or during a UFO sighting that started in normal waking consciousness.
One issue is whether we should seek a uniform explanation for reported UFO sightings, alien abductions, &c., or whether we should break these down into different subsets of phenomena which are susceptible to one or more explanations, which might not apply to another subset of phenomena.
ReplyDeleteAs to the naturalistic hallucinatory explanation, I have to admit that I'm a sucker for testimony. When I read of people recounting the same experiences over and over again, eventually I just can no longer suspend belief. Just like with the Near Death Experience, there seems to be too much consistency in the experiences. So often the disk-shaped ufo's are involved, the big black-eyed greys reading minds, the probing and sexual experiments, viewings of end-times scenarios, etc. I'm not sure I know of any good evidence for consistent streams of hallucinations like this, happening to thousands of people each year. Hallucinations and dream states would seem to assume more random forms than what we're seeing here. I feel the same way about NDE's.
ReplyDeleteUfo researches seem to think there's also a good amount of physical evidence in the case of abductions, that skeptics won't even consider (people who show up after they were missing for several days dehydrated and starved, recovered implants, etc.).
ReplyDeleteAnother issue with night terrors or old hag syndrome is this. Like my friend, wouldn't most people who have this, be accustomed to it? My friend had the experience all the time. It would be odd if the first instance of the experience in most individual's lives, and everyone thereafter, had alien content. And if it didn't, they could at least refer back to what they know is a common experience for them. If this is a true "syndrome", I presume they can diagnose it. I'd wager that the majority of abductees don't have prior symptoms of this syndrome.
Here's a list of some of the more famous abductions:
ReplyDeletehttp://ufos.about.com/od/aliensalienabduction/a/bestabductions_2.htm
Might be worth researching. At first glance, many are in normal waking consciousous, occur around the time of UFO sightings, and involve groups of people.
Jason - best thing about that video I recommended is the number of sober credible accounts, many of which were actually officially reported and documented to superiors in the military. Many people don't realize that the governor of Arizona, who mocked the whole event in a media stunt, actually saw the Pheonix "lights" (I put that in quotes because there are hundreds of people who say theys aw the *craft* itself and not just lights), and now admits that he does think it was some kind of alien technology.
ReplyDeleteBut - they do address likelihood of aliens from another galaxy being involved. They discuss various hypotheses for interstellar space travel. On likelihood for aliens even existing, it is weak, as they rely solely on the Drake Equation (though apparently the DE has some more respectable modern proponents/incarnations).
Interestingly enough, Richard Carrier claims he woke up with a demon on his chest at one point in his past. That might be what has been possessing him to distort his sources like he has all these years.
ReplyDeleteHere's a blast from the past... Dr. Walter Martin expounds on UFO's
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=2190615720
This was probably recorded in the 70's. Martin claims to have seen a UFO.
A friend of mine made a documentary called "UFOs, Angels, and Gods" (you can watch snatches of it on youtube), where he takes the "ancient astronaut" route, tying UFO sightings in with the nephilim. He's a dispensationalist, sooooo...make of that what you will. I also wrote the soundtrack - haha, shameless plug.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking for myself, I don't think the evidence for UFOs has really been terribly convincing so far. In terms of empirical evidence, there doesn't seem to be much that's worth considering, especially since video is so easy to edit these days.
ReplyDeleteAs for the paranormal, since I believe in the Bible, I already believe in a devil and fallen angels, so something like ghosts might be a bit more plausible. I've been watching Discover's "A Haunting" and it may not provide a lot of evidence, but boy it's one creepy show.
Mathetes - you should check out Out of the Blue.
ReplyDeleteThe Rendlesham Forest incident is, to me, one of the most convincing cases:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/rendleshamforest.htm
There's alot on that in the documentary. Multiple military eyewitnesses. They took casts of indentions left by the craft's landing gear, copied the strange markings and lettering on the side of the craft, took audio recordings describing exactly what they were seeing as they saw it, tested for abnormally high radiation levels where it landed, and Lt. Col. Charles Halt filed an official report, which can be read here:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc662.htm
uh...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081291/
?
link to documentary of same name in my first comment on this thread.
ReplyDeleteWell so it is! I might just grab this...if it goes beyond the "grainy videos of dinner plates" that you see on so many websites, then I'll definitely give it a chance.
ReplyDeleteI remember Steve mentioning on a few occasions the secular roots of ufology, but I find that skeptics are more likely to ridicule the idea than buy into it. Might he be referring to researchers like Jaques Vallee?
What should we make of UFOs? Santa Claus stories. Based on the empirical evidence alone, such would be as likely as anything.
ReplyDeleteMathetes - seriously, buy it. I collect documentaries; this is one of the best I own, whether or not you find it convincing. It is just filmed really well, with Peter Coyote narrating, and the quality of witnesses is tremendous. It is great.
ReplyDeleteI see that the same guy also has a newer documentary called "I Know What I Saw". The title sounds a little on the defensive side, but anyways, have you seen this as well?
ReplyDeleteI this is a link to a youtube version of "Out Of The Blue".
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdZpRcTBwdA
Mathetes - I haven't seen it.
ReplyDeleteAnnoyed - that is to the previous edition. New one is much better, esp. with the interview of the governor of Arizona.
Thanks for all the information, Alex. It's helpful.
ReplyDeleteHere's a youtube version of Chuck Missler's "Return of the Nephilim"
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCk4VMTGme4
FYI, I believe Missler is a Pre-Tribulational, Dispensational, Pre-Millennialist. He argues that there's a connection between the Nephilim of the Bible and UFOs.
I'm personally no longer dogmatic on eschatological issues. Though, I currently lean toward partial preterism of either the Amillennial or Post-Millennial type. Even then, Kim Riddlebarger's lectures and books on Amillennialism are causing me to reconsider the truth of preterism.
Here's a link to many of his lectures on amillennialism and eschatology
http://www.christreformed.org/mp3s-and-real-audio-of-academy/
Here's his amazon.com link to his book "A Case for Amillennialism" http://www.amazon.com/Case-Amillennialism-Understanding-End-Times/dp/080106435X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297287089&sr=8-1