Thursday, May 05, 2016

Trump's constituency

We can thank Roman Catholics and white supremacists for Trump's ascendency:

Donald Trump swept the Republican primaries in the Northeast Corridor in large part due to the turnout of angry blue-collar Catholics. He may do the same in Indiana today. 
Trump’s biggest victory was in New York – which is 44 percent blue-collar – where he racked up an astonishing 61 percent of votes cast and carried all sixty-two counties. On Long Island where a large majority of GOP voters are Catholic, Trump received an astonishing 70 percent…In record-breaking numbers, they have come out to support the person who appeals to their gut, not to their mind – Donald Trump. 
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/05/03/angry-blue-collar-catholics/

22 comments:

  1. Why do you dislike Trump? A lot of older men hate him. Seems like envy.

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    1. covenant31

      "Why do you dislike Trump?"

      Given how much I've posted explaining why I oppose Trump, that's a pretty mindless question.

      "A lot of older men hate him. Seems like envy."

      i) So if I disapprove of rich liberals like (the late) Ted Kennedy, George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Al Gore, Arianna Huffington, John Kerry, Ted Turner, Michael Bloomberg, Jay Rockefeller, Dianne Feinstein, the Clintons et al., that must be envy.

      ii) For you to allege that I envy Trump says everything about you and nothing about me. How could you even suspect that unless you yourself find Trump enviable in some respects, and use your personal frame of reference to impute your envy to me. So what do you find enviable about Trump? His trophy wives? His adulterous affairs? His fawning employees? His ostentatious lifestyle?

      iii) BTW, are younger men (or women) any less envious of the rich than older men? What does age have to do with it?

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    2. You've written a lot. There's a lot to parse through. However I can only assume you think he is a failure of a business man, is a misogynist, a racist, hates Mexicans, disagree with is Muslim policies and think he is stupid. Just summarizing your points would help me out.

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    3. No, you don't have to "assume" anything. I've spelled out my objections in numerous posts. If you didn't bother to read them, then your allegation is uninformed.

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    4. covenant31

      "Since Trump operates outside of NYC a blue state, he's had to bribe a lot of people. That's what he is fighting against."

      That's unintentionally funny. Trump is "fighting against" bribes despite the fact that he's "had to bribe a lot of people"?

      That's like saying we can trust a drug dealer is fighting against the drug trade despite the fact that he's had to sell a lot of drugs.

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    5. I assume you're a LewRockwell.com libertarian type. People like you have a whole conspiratorial narrative about American political history. There's layers and layers to peel away. I've already had those discussions in the past with Ron Paulbots. I have zero interest in debating the merits of Trump with you. That's a parallel universe with its own laws.

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  2. covenant31

    "Why do you dislike Trump? A lot of older men hate him. Seems like envy."

    What makes you think like or dislike has anything to do with it? It's not about like or dislike. It's not as if most people who have advocated against Trump know Trump personally let alone know him well enough to like or dislike him. Rather it's about whether Trump would make a good or bad president.

    Speaking for myself, I don't envy Trump. What's to envy? His pious life? His charming personality? His sky high IQ? His athletic physique? His ascribed status in society? His "success" in business? His haircut? He doesn't have anything I want, and he's knee deep in things I don't want.

    Perhaps a better question to ask is why you're attempting to turn this into a pissing match.

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    1. It's because I have noticed a lot of men after having all their objections to Trump refuted still dislike him. It fuels this hate for this guy. He's public enemy number 1.

      He's an intelligent man that unlike Cruz and Rubio and the rest are just career politicians. He turned a mid-size business into a multi-billion dollar one. He's had over 500 business ventures of which 80 have failed. Over 80% of first time entrepreneurs fail. Yet out of that he has had a disproportionate amount of success than failure.

      He's self-funded unlike the rest and he is speaking some common sense solutions to big issues, like with the Muslims.

      All I have ever seen from anti-Trump folk is some cherry-picked comment/snippet of his speeches, some off-hand remark he made during 40 years under the spotlight and remarks about his haircut.

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    2. True, he's not a career politician. Instead, he's a career conman and a career crony capitalist.

      No, he's not self-funded. Indeed, now that he has the nomination in the bag, he's turning to the donor class.

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    3. Do you care to substantiate some of your claims Steve? I was wondering are you a minister in the PCA or just a member?

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    4. covenant31

      "It's because I have noticed a lot of men after having all their objections to Trump refuted still dislike him. It fuels this hate for this guy. He's public enemy number 1."

      So why did you assume that necessarily applies to Steve in your first comment?

      That said, it's easy to dislike dislikeable people.

      And there's nothing necessarily wrong with disliking an immoral person.

      "He's an intelligent man that unlike Cruz and Rubio and the rest are just career politicians. He turned a mid-size business into a multi-billion dollar one. He's had over 500 business ventures of which 80 have failed. Over 80% of first time entrepreneurs fail. Yet out of that he has had a disproportionate amount of success than failure."

      Success in business doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence.

      "All I have ever seen from anti-Trump folk is some cherry-picked comment/snippet of his speeches, some off-hand remark he made during 40 years under the spotlight and remarks about his haircut."

      As opposed to what Trump or pro-Trump folks have done? Such as inventing evidence out of the blue and using the National Enquirer to smear others (e.g. Cruz's dad was involved in JFK's assassination - which Trump himself later denied believing)?

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    5. I already substantiated my claims in numerous posts on the subject.

      And if you're unaware of the fact that he's soliciting donations, you haven't kept up with the news. Google is your friend.

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    6. covenant31

      "Do you care to substantiate some of your claims Steve?"

      What claims have you yourself substantiated? You've dodged a lot of our responses.

      "I was wondering are you a minister in the PCA or just a member?"

      Why is this even relevant? Why does it matter to you?

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    7. $5,400 is the maximum amount a couple may give combined for the PRIMARY election to Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. If a joint contribution is made, both individuals must be listed as account holders or both must sign the check.

      The amounts donated aren't significant enough to bribe Trump. Maybe it's because I generally distrust the media and leftists and so me favoring Trump could be more of a reaction to that.

      Also I don't dislike Cruz I just like Trump.

      "Success in business doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence."
      He IQ was estimated around the 150 range and if it's just around there he's managed and ran many successful business. You don't exactly have morons running multi-billion dollar joint ventures.

      "I was wondering are you a minister in the PCA or just a member?"
      As hard as it might be to believe because I disagree with Steve on this doesn't mean I don't like him. I regularly browse Triablogue and have enjoyed his many posts and the many other authors, you included, that have been edifying to me.

      I asked this question because in my reading I was just wandering if he was a pastor or not. I have no intent to trace him down or anything.



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    8. covenant31

      "$5,400 is the maximum amount a couple may give combined for the PRIMARY election to Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. If a joint contribution is made, both individuals must be listed as account holders or both must sign the check. The amounts donated aren't significant enough to bribe Trump."

      Do you think that's the only way to contribute money to the Trump campaign?

      "Maybe it's because I generally distrust the media and leftists and so me favoring Trump could be more of a reaction to that."

      I too distrust the media and leftists, but I don't see how that makes it more likely for someone to favor Trump.

      "Also I don't dislike Cruz I just like Trump."

      Who brought up liking or disliking Cruz? Not me.

      Anyway, you called Cruz a "career politician" as if it were true and as if it were a negative thing.

      "He IQ was estimated around the 150 range"

      What's your source for this? I hope it's not something like Wikipedia!

      "Estimated" IQ tests are basically meaningless. A proper IQ test needs to be conducted under strict conditions by trained professionals.

      Apart from the IQ test, multiple other measures are needed to appropriately identify intellectual giftedness.

      And IQ tests have their limitations.

      "You don't exactly have morons running multi-billion dollar joint ventures."

      Not being intelligent isn't equivalent to being a moron.

      You don't exactly have lazy people running multi-billion dollar joint ventures.

      You don't exactly have passive people running multi-billion dollar joint ventures.

      You don't exactly have unambitious people running multi-billion dollar joint ventures.

      And so on and so forth.

      "As hard as it might be to believe because I disagree with Steve on this doesn't mean I don't like him."

      No one ever talked about liking or disliking Steve.

      "I regularly browse Triablogue and have enjoyed his many posts and the many other authors, you included, that have been edifying to me."

      Thanks, I appreciate it.

      "I asked this question because in my reading I was just wandering if he was a pastor or not. I have no intent to trace him down or anything."

      Well, you asked this question in the middle of stumping for Trump, which would make it an irrelevant question to ask.

      It'd probably be better to ask a question like this privately or elsewhere.

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    9. covenant31

      "$5,400 is the maximum amount a couple may give combined for the PRIMARY election to Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. If a joint contribution is made, both individuals must be listed as account holders or both must sign the check. The amounts donated aren't significant enough to bribe Trump."

      Who said anything about Trump being bribed? I don't know anything about Trump taking bribes. However, it wouldn't surprise me if he has taken bribes. Or, perhaps more likely, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump has tried to bribe others to get what he wants (e.g. delegates if it had been needed).

      "Maybe it's because I generally distrust the media and leftists and so me favoring Trump could be more of a reaction to that."

      Of course, it's largely been "leftists" in "the media" who have essentially given Trump millions of dollars' worth of free coverage and air time. Who have trumpeted Trump.

      The main reason for this is probably because they want the weakest candidate possible to go up against Hillary who is an extraordinarily weak candidate. At the beginning the Republicans had a whole panel filled with stalwart conservatives who likely could've defeated her (e.g. Rubio, Walker, Perry). Now we're left with Trump who will likely lose to her. Liberals couldn't have asked for a better candidate than Trump to go up against Hillary.

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    10. > Do you think that's the only way to contribute money to the Trump campaign?
      Would you list them please?

      > I too distrust the media and leftists, but I don't see how that makes it more likely for someone to favor Trump.
      Seeing as how the media favors Clinton and Sanders. People I despise greatly and who hold disgusting values it does lend favor to Trump.

      > Who brought up liking or disliking Cruz? Not me.
      Woah. You said the pro-Trump folk have been slandering Cruz. My point is that I am not necessarily in that radical pro-Trump group. I just like Trump.

      > Anyway, you called Cruz a "career politician" as if it were true and as if it were a negative thing.
      It's not a positive. Working in the free market requires skill, innovation and intelligence. Since Trump wasn't just some lottery winner nor a sectary this lends favor to him.

      Cruz has to do a lot of proverbial a** kissing. Like all politicians.

      > What's your source for this? I hope it's not something like Wikipedia!
      http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2015/08/donald-trump-is-a-genius-but-thats-just-his-iq-3038790.html

      > Not being intelligent isn't equivalent to being a moron.
      Point in case. Running a lot of successful business isn't the hallmark of stupidity.

      https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/the-iqs-of-fortune-500-ceos/

      > It'd probably be better to ask a question like this privately or elsewhere.
      No Facebook or e-mail or anything : (

      > However, it wouldn't surprise me if he has taken bribes.
      Bribes for what?

      Something for you to chew on;

      http://www.untruthaboutdonaldtrump.com/

      In addition see the links I posted to Steve above.







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    11. covenant31

      "Would you list them please?"

      I'm not here to do your spadework for you.

      "Seeing as how the media favors Clinton and Sanders. People I despise greatly and who hold disgusting values it does lend favor to Trump."

      1. That's unresponsive to my point. The media can favor Clinton, Sanders, and Trump. Each for different reasons.

      2. You don't think Trump's "values" are "disgusting"?

      "Woah. You said the pro-Trump folk have been slandering Cruz. My point is that I am not necessarily in that radical pro-Trump group. I just like Trump."

      You like Trump, but you ignore the fact that Trump himself is the main culprit behind the smears against Cruz's family (e.g. Cruz's wife, Cruz's father).

      "It's not a positive."

      For one thing, you keep assuming Cruz is a "career politician". He's only really been in national politics since 2013. That's hardly enough time to be considered a "career politician". He's burned a lot of bridges with his own party too.

      "Working in the free market requires skill, innovation and intelligence."

      You didn't include skill and innovation until I corrected you. Instead, you led only with intelligence.

      "Since Trump wasn't just some lottery winner nor a sectary this lends favor to him."

      1. Actually, Trump was a "lottery winner" in life. He was born into wealth. He was born into social circles most people can never hope to rub elbows with. He was certainly more of a "lottery winner" in life than the vast majority of people in the US let alone the world.

      2. It'd be more impressive to start in abject poverty and become a multimillionaire or multibillionaire.

      "Cruz has to do a lot of proverbial a** kissing. Like all politicians."

      1. As I mentioned above, Cruz has burned a lot of bridges within his own party. Such as by calling Mitch McConnell a liar on the Senate floor. That's not exactly obsequiously currying favor. Cruz has his flaws, but ass kissing (at least other politicians) probably isn't one of them.

      2. In any case, Trump is one of the biggest ass kissers of all. He pandered to evangelical voters in Iowa by showing them his mother's Bible for one. Likewise he just posted a photo of himself eating a taco bowl and saying "I love Hispanics".

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    12. covenant31

      "http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2015/08/donald-trump-is-a-genius-but-thats-just-his-iq-3038790.html"

      1. This is your source for Trump's IQ being >150? It's a poor source. It's just one guy's opinion, which he himself admits is "speculative".

      2. In any case, the article bases it on the fact that Trump attended Wharton: "Given the usual requirements for admission to a top school like Wharton, I estimate that Mr. Trump has a 156 IQ at the minimum." However, the problem is Trump didn't attend Wharton the MBA program, which is what's prestigious. Rather, Trump attended Wharton as an undergraduate at UPenn. And this was after Trump had transferred from Fordham University. Trump received a bachelor's degree from Wharton, not at an MBA.

      3. Since we're just speculating, perhaps we can float the theory that Trump was a legacy admit to Wharton at UPenn.

      "Point in case. Running a lot of successful business isn't the hallmark of stupidity. https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/the-iqs-of-fortune-500-ceos/"

      1. So I read the post, and the post is based on a single study.

      2. The study says it obtained its data on billionaires from Fortune magazine.

      3. The study then checks to see if the billionaire attended an elite college. If so, then the study assumes the billionaire must have a high IQ based on the average admissions standardized exam scores for the elite college (i.e. SATs and ACTs).

      4. Importantly, the study does not base any of this on actual IQ tests conducted under strict conditions by a trained professional.

      5. It's easy enough to call the reliability of the study's methodology in accurately determining a billionaire's intelligence into question.

      6. Indeed, if you read the study's "limitations" section, the study itself admits things like legacy admits could have skewed the data.

      7. In short, the study itself makes significant assumptions about billionaires and intelligence. I'd hardly take it as an accurate or reliable study when it comes to determining Trump's IQ.

      "No Facebook or e-mail or anything : ("

      I've seen otherwise.

      "Bribes for what?"

      You tell me. You yourself admitted Trump had to "bribe a lot of people" so you probably know better than I do: "Since Trump operates outside of NYC a blue state, he's had to bribe a lot of people. That's what he is fighting against."

      "Something for you to chew on; http://www.untruthaboutdonaldtrump.com/ In addition see the links I posted to Steve above."

      All the links you cite are from a single individual - Stefan Molyneux. A lot of his ideas seem to mirror Lee Rockwell. Is that the case? I don't know, and I don't care enough to tumble down down down headlong into this rabbit hole. There are better ways to lose one's mind.

      Besides, Trump himself has already said and done enough on his own that I can form a pretty fair judgment about Trump based just on Trump.

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    13. "2. The study says it obtained its data on billionaires from Fortune magazine."

      Sorry I mean Forbes magazine. Not that that's much of an improvement.

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  3. This makes sense because Trump lost big in Wisconsin which is not a Catholic state. It is mostly Lutheran.

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  4. On the other hand, it seemed to me that Catholics are usually strong on abortion, whereas Trump has waffled on the issue so badly that his real position is difficult to determine.

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