In the case of MacBain, I think most of the shunning was due the spectacularly public and boastful way in which she "came out" as an atheist. I can at least say that if my pastor announced (in a timely manner and to the deacons & congregation first) that he'd had a change of heart and he didn't feel qualified for the post, I'd be shocked, but overall willing accept it and move on.
The author's justification for her own rejection of specific doctrine is puzzling. I would see little personal benefit in attending church much less ministering if I felt that Jesus was not who the church has historically claimed him to be. Paul made much the same argument in the first century, and the argument has all the more weight now that we have patiently waited two millennia for his promised return.
My favorite quote from the meta: "MacBain feels that she's lying to people every Sunday, but what's the alternative? Work at Wal-Mart?" Because being a professional liar is obviously the moral choice when the alternative is being an honest pleb.
My favorite quote from the meta: "MacBain feels that she's lying to people every Sunday, but what's the alternative? Work at Wal-Mart?" Because being a professional liar is obviously the moral choice when the alternative is being an honest pleb.
She's also married. Does her husband not work? She has a 22 year old son in the military, so it's not clear she still has young or stay at home children to raise.
* At no point do they interview or say they tried to interview any members of the congregation she was at.
* They strongly suggest that the congregation was furious with her for her lack of belief. Not so much her delivering a sermon, and almost a week later getting up on stage at an atheist group to 'come out', and then telling everyone 'I'm going to hell with all of you!'
* They barely hint - not once - that, you know... many atheists in America, and certainly atheist groups, are intellectually and socially hostile to Christians. They make it look like American Atheists is just a support group where people who don't believe in God just hug each other.
And the article Triablogue linked to is ridiculous. That woman may not be an atheist, but a Christian? By what standard?
Candace answers the question of why she calls herself a Christian using her own standard.
"Thanks for your opinion. While I appreciate it, I humbly disagree. I may not be what you define as a Christian, but you don't define my faith. I do. So, I'll continue to call myself what feels right to me. For now, that is a Christian."
I say that it's puzzling because I simply cannot relate to the cognitive disconnects necessary to enable one to simply redefine terms and concepts as they see fit. How could I function in the face of such obvious contradictions, especially when preparing a Sunday school lesson and carefully sidestepping inconvenient bits of information. It wouldn't take long staring a the pages to declare the whole thing ridiculous and just get on with my life.
Which appears to be exactly the sort of thing which happened to MacBain. So, I guess I can appreciate her courage of conviction, if not her lack of tact and personal accountability.
As for the NPR story, I tend to agree with the article Crude linked. Where is the other side represented? Is MacBain a hero and the victim of unjust prejudice or is her congregation and parish the victim of fraud and betrayal of confidence?
Also, I wonder if the Clergy Project will consider interviewing or trying to get pastors and clergy to "Come out" if they've been, say... bilking their congregations, sexually abusing children, etc.
Is the Clergy Project in contact with Ted Haggard?
The author of this article is ignorant, insane, or immoral. There is not way around it, I would opt for a little of all three with an emphasis on the last two. If you are a Sodomite, Lesbian, or whatever, then why would you want anything to do with Christianity?
In the case of MacBain, I think most of the shunning was due the spectacularly public and boastful way in which she "came out" as an atheist. I can at least say that if my pastor announced (in a timely manner and to the deacons & congregation first) that he'd had a change of heart and he didn't feel qualified for the post, I'd be shocked, but overall willing accept it and move on.
ReplyDeleteThe author's justification for her own rejection of specific doctrine is puzzling. I would see little personal benefit in attending church much less ministering if I felt that Jesus was not who the church has historically claimed him to be. Paul made much the same argument in the first century, and the argument has all the more weight now that we have patiently waited two millennia for his promised return.
My favorite quote from the meta: "MacBain feels that she's lying to people every Sunday, but what's the alternative? Work at Wal-Mart?" Because being a professional liar is obviously the moral choice when the alternative is being an honest pleb.
My favorite quote from the meta: "MacBain feels that she's lying to people every Sunday, but what's the alternative? Work at Wal-Mart?" Because being a professional liar is obviously the moral choice when the alternative is being an honest pleb.
ReplyDeleteShe's also married. Does her husband not work? She has a 22 year old son in the military, so it's not clear she still has young or stay at home children to raise.
Anyway, you can get some good coverage of the article here.
For me, the entire thing is ridiculous.
* At no point do they interview or say they tried to interview any members of the congregation she was at.
* They strongly suggest that the congregation was furious with her for her lack of belief. Not so much her delivering a sermon, and almost a week later getting up on stage at an atheist group to 'come out', and then telling everyone 'I'm going to hell with all of you!'
* They barely hint - not once - that, you know... many atheists in America, and certainly atheist groups, are intellectually and socially hostile to Christians. They make it look like American Atheists is just a support group where people who don't believe in God just hug each other.
And the article Triablogue linked to is ridiculous. That woman may not be an atheist, but a Christian? By what standard?
"That woman may not be an atheist, but a Christian? By what standard?"
ReplyDeleteThe author, Candace, answers that question in the comment thread.
Summary: By and large, too many LibProts are a detestable abomination.
The author, Candace, answers that question in the comment thread.
ReplyDeleteDoes she? I only saw one response from her. I suppose her answer is 'Because I say so.' going by that.
Candace answers the question of why she calls herself a Christian using her own standard.
ReplyDelete"Thanks for your opinion. While I appreciate it, I humbly disagree. I may not be what you define as a Christian, but you don't define my faith. I do. So, I'll continue to call myself what feels right to me. For now, that is a Christian."
A LibProt.
I say that it's puzzling because I simply cannot relate to the cognitive disconnects necessary to enable one to simply redefine terms and concepts as they see fit. How could I function in the face of such obvious contradictions, especially when preparing a Sunday school lesson and carefully sidestepping inconvenient bits of information. It wouldn't take long staring a the pages to declare the whole thing ridiculous and just get on with my life.
ReplyDeleteWhich appears to be exactly the sort of thing which happened to MacBain. So, I guess I can appreciate her courage of conviction, if not her lack of tact and personal accountability.
As for the NPR story, I tend to agree with the article Crude linked. Where is the other side represented? Is MacBain a hero and the victim of unjust prejudice or is her congregation and parish the victim of fraud and betrayal of confidence?
Also, I wonder if the Clergy Project will consider interviewing or trying to get pastors and clergy to "Come out" if they've been, say... bilking their congregations, sexually abusing children, etc.
ReplyDeleteIs the Clergy Project in contact with Ted Haggard?
The author of this article is ignorant, insane, or immoral. There is not way around it, I would opt for a little of all three with an emphasis on the last two. If you are a Sodomite, Lesbian, or whatever, then why would you want anything to do with Christianity?
ReplyDeleteI asked a couple questions in the meta and got the typical answers... i.e. nonsense and silence.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how people can live with such gaping holes in their thinking.