When I in high school I planned to go to college. I found my dream school and couldn't wait to start. There was just one problem: college is expensive. I had no way of paying for it and there was no chance that I was about to take out $200K worth of loans. I was stuck, and so I prayed to God. Please help me! Wouldn't you know it, right around that time my dad got a new job that paid a little bit more than the last one. Even more than that the job was at a local university in the same system so they were willing to pay tuition exchange, taking care of more than three quarters of my expenses just like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABVO8d8Uveo&t=35s
On the one hand there's a lot written about the problem of unanswered prayer. On the other hand there are lots of Christians with personal anecdotes about dramatic answers to prayer.
But there's a third, neglected category. God is not the only supernatural agent. Although God is incomparably the most powerful, he's not the only agent who can intervene and arrange for certain things to happen. Evil spirits have power. Some witchdoctors acquire supernatural power in league with evil spirits.
This in turn becomes the stuff of fiction. In some cases this involves a conscious pact with the devil (The legend of Faust; Rosemary's Baby). In other cases the ambitious individual may not know until it's too late what he's gotten into (The Devil's Advocate). In some cases we need to evaluate a successful answer to prayer, not merely by whether it works, but who they prayed to and the goal. Casey is a Franciscan friar. A winsome, charismatic spokesman for Catholicism. But if Catholicism is a delusive sect that leads people astray, then perhaps that was a genuine answer to prayer, but God wasn't the agent who made the necessary arrangements. Presumably, Casey prayed to Mary, but what if Mary doesn't answer prayers.
This doesn't require a conscious Faustian bargain. Mormons imagine that their prayers are Christian prayers. It's possible to be immersed in the occult without knowing it. The devil has many aliases and front organizations. Although his power is finite, he does have the power to pull strings and make certain things happen.
I have a pious Christian friend who is a campus minister in an African nation. He has told me how some of his relatives have received "blessings" after consulting with (he believes) a demonically-possessed relative (e.g. money, food). However, he has also told me that they've received "curses" when they didn't do what the demonically-possessed relative advised (e.g. injurious accidents, even a death if I recall correctly). So many of their family members fear crossing this relative.
ReplyDeleteI remember in my youth, as a member of a mainstream Protestant church, going to a program featuring an African--from Namibia, as I recall--discussing the Marxist financial and military assistance to his group's rebellion. He gave the analogy: "When you're drowning, going down for the third time, and someone reaches down from a boat into the water to offer you a rescuing hand, you don't stop to ask who they are." (My immediate reaction, even at that young age, was to think: "Oh, yes, you do! Better to drown than to make a deal with the devil!")
ReplyDeleteThat may be Casey's situation, I don't know.
I sometimes wonder though whether God doesn't answer the prayers of those who are theologically deficient in order to lure them back somewhere on down the line. None of us are totally theologically orthodox. God probably has other criteria he takes into account in answering prayer. The need of the petitioner. The faith of the petitioner. The fact that it aligns with somebody else's prayer.
It should be noted that Casey's general message is actually fairly insightful. He doesn't break new ground, but his points are basically accurate.
I did have to laugh, however, when he inferred that God never interferes with an individual's free will. In "Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God," J. I. Packer pointed out that whenever we pray for a loved one's conversion, we're praying that God change their will. I'm guessing, moreover, that Casey wouldn't neglect to pray for a straying spouse to return to fidelity! We pray--legitimately--for people's minds and hearts to change ALL THE TIME!!
//But if Catholicism is a delusive sect that leads people astray, then perhaps that was a genuine answer to prayer, but God wasn't the agent who made the necessary arrangements. Presumably, Casey prayed to Mary, but what if Mary doesn't answer prayers.//
ReplyDeleteSteve, I was going to suggest some topics you might want to consider blogging about. One of them is relevant to this blog.
- Steve, do you think the official Roman Catholic gospel is saving? I would assume "no", even if by God's mercy some Catholics are saved despite being Catholic.
[BTW, I'd be interested in Jason and John's views on this topic and some others below as well, if they're reading this comment]
- Do you think infant baptism is an apostolic tradition that goes back to one or more Apostle?
- Steve, please write more Star Trek Christian fanfiction. Consider for example the implications of freewill and Data's temptation of the Borg Queen to be the Adam to her Eve. Who was the better captain? Kirk or Picard? Or some other?
- Would you consider writing an evangelistic tract for village/internet atheists (who know just enough to make Christianity unappealing)?
- Do you have a recipe for some food you'd like to pass on to the next generation? Maybe one you received from family members?
- Any thoughts on converted Messianic Jew Felix Mendelssohn's Elijah? How does it compare with Handel's Messiah?
- You've mentioned the speculative possibility of marriage in the afterlife. Honestly, I never understood your defense of that possibility. Could you explain it more plainly?
- Do you take a stand on Christian parents circumcising their sons? For, against, or neutral? How would you recommend Jews and Christians who practice circumcision to defend it in light of how atheists would argue that it's no different than female genital mutilation?
- What advice would you say to Christians or non-Christians who had loved ones die who weren't didn't come to faith in Christ prior to death? Some Christians struggle with this issue, and it's also one of the psychological reasons why some non-Christians are reject Christianity or are actively anti-Christian. Because acknowledging it to be true would be to virtually accept that their dead loved ones are in hell. Think for example of atheists or Jews and the death of loved ones in the Holocaust/Shoah.
- Given your acknowledged fascination with zombie movies, have you seen Train to Busan (2016) or Extinction (2015) which Matthew Fox and Jeffrey Donovan? If so, thoughts?
- Did or didn't Han Solo shoot first?
- Would you ever consider doing a pubic moderated debate with an atheist (e.g. via the internet)?
- Is there a single Christian biography that you think every or most Christians should read? Biblical character or extra-biblical.
- Why Common Grace is true or false. Or why God does or doesn't love the non-elect.
Sorry for the typos.
Delete"- Steve, do you think the official Roman Catholic gospel is saving? I would assume "no"…"
DeleteCorrect. They put their faith in their denomination, Mary, the sacraments, the priest, rather than Jesus
"even if by God's mercy some Catholics are saved despite being Catholic."
True
"- Do you think infant baptism is an apostolic tradition that goes back to one or more Apostle?"
I've argued on sociological grounds that infant baptism is probably apostolic practice. But that's an inconclusive a regiment.
"- Steve, please write more Star Trek Christian fanfiction."
I don't recall writing any Star Trek Christian fanfiction. Many of my short stories are science fiction. But Star Trek isn't my frame of reference, although some episodes are interesting.
"Consider for example the implications of freewill and Data's temptation of the Borg Queen to be the Adam to her Eve."
Data's quest to become human never interested me.
"Who was the better captain? Kirk or Picard?"
Picard
"- Would you consider writing an evangelistic tract for village/internet atheists (who know just enough to make Christianity unappealing)?"
Interesting idea.
"- Do you have a recipe for some food you'd like to pass on to the next generation? Maybe one you received from family members?"
No.
"- Any thoughts on converted Messianic Jew Felix Mendelssohn's Elijah? How does it compare with Handel's Messiah?"
Handel was a supreme musical genius who died at the height of his mature powers. Mendelssohn was another genius who died at 38 while he was still developing his abilities. Hard to compare.
"- You've mentioned the speculative possibility of marriage in the afterlife. Honestly, I never understood your defense of that possibility. Could you explain it more plainly?"
DeleteI have nothing to new add to my explanation. The onus lies on you to explain why you find it unsatisfactory.
"- Do you take a stand on Christian parents circumcising their sons? For, against, or neutral?"
I oppose Christian parents circumcising their sons.
"How would you recommend Jews and Christians who practice circumcision to defend it in light of how atheists would argue that it's no different than female genital mutilation?"
I don't think Jews and Christians should practice circumcision during the new covenant era, although I think Jews should be allowed to.
There is a physiological difference between male and female circumcision.
"- What advice would you say to Christians or non-Christians who had loved ones die who weren't didn't come to faith in Christ prior to death? Some Christians struggle with this issue, and it's also one of the psychological reasons why some non-Christians are reject Christianity or are actively anti-Christian. Because acknowledging it to be true would be to virtually accept that their dead loved ones are in hell. Think for example of atheists or Jews and the death of loved ones in the Holocaust/Shoah."
I'd tell them that God understands their feelings.
"- Given your acknowledged fascination with zombie movies, have you seen Train to Busan (2016) or Extinction(2015) which Matthew Fox and Jeffrey Donovan? If so, thoughts?"
I'm not fascinated by zombie films. I comment on them because they're part of the pop culture, and are a useful illustration of what ordinary decent people will do in desperate situations. The genre itself has limited dramatic potential, easily exhausted.
"- Would you ever consider doing a pubic moderated debate with an atheist (e.g. via the internet)?"
Not my metier.
"- Is there a single Christian biography that you think every or most Christians should read? Biblical character or extra-biblical."
Hard to choose just one.
"- Why Common Grace is true or false."
Human beings are social creatures. The lives of elect and reprobate are inextricably intertwined.
"Or why God does or doesn't love the non-elect."
Why does God love any sinners? Why does God love the wicked?
It's hypothetically possible that someone who's reprobate in one world history is elect in a parallel universe.
Thanks Steve for giving your answers. You even answered some of the tongue-in-cheek ones! LOL! I was even going to ask things like whether Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao should fight again, and whether Conor McGregor and Jose Aldo should have a rematch too. Hehe. But I don't know how much you follow MMA. Though, you have mentioned it at times.
Delete//I don't recall writing any Star Trek Christian fanfiction. Many of my short stories are science fiction. But Star Trek isn't my frame of reference, although some episodes are interesting.//
It's been a long time, so it's understandable that you don't recall. Here's one example (from 2009) of at least two I can think of:
Feed My Sheep
//Data's quest to become human never interested me.//
I was alluding to some philosophical questions concerning free will (etc.). Something similar to the stuff addressed by Isaac Asimov in I Robot. In one of the collected stories a bunch of robots "got religion".
//Handel was a supreme musical genius who died at the height of his mature powers. Mendelssohn was another genius who died at 38 while he was still developing his abilities. Hard to compare. //
An interesting perspective that makes sense.
//I have nothing to new add to my explanation. The onus lies on you to explain why you find it unsatisfactory. //
My natural reading of our Lord's statement is that "being like the angels in heaven" would mean humans won't be getting married in the afterlife just as angels don't get married. But then you gave some explanation that somehow nullifies what seems (at least to me) the natural interpretation of Jesus' statement. It seems you were saying Jesus wasn't addressing the topic of postmortem marriage. But that's precisely what it seems (at least to me) Jesus was addressing. I'll have to re-read your comments again.
//It's hypothetically possible that someone who's reprobate in one world history is elect in a parallel universe. //
True. But would you affirm or deny that God loves everyone to some degree or another, and that God loves the elect more than the non-elect. Or would you say that God has no love whatsoever for the non-elect in any given universe?
Regarding an evangelistic tract for village/internet atheists, in one sense it would seem like an exercise in futility because they are so hardened. Even beyond usual levels of Total Depravity. Yet, in another sense, it would be interesting to think of what one could say. How would one approach it. What intellectual, or existential or factual or philosophic or emotional angles to take.
Public debates might not be your metier.... Or is it because you don't want to put other Christian apologists out of work? I guess that's the merciful thing to do on account of the job losses during the quarantine lockdown. Very generous of you!
"How would you recommend Jews and Christians who practice circumcision to defend it in light of how atheists would argue that it's no different than female genital mutilation?"
Delete1. Male circumcision is removing the foreskin.
2. Female genital mutilation has 4 types. Roughly, type 1 is removing the clitoris. Type 2 is removing the clitoris and labia (i.e. labia minora but sometimes labia majora too). Type 3 is narrowing the vagina through stitching it up. Type 4 is anything that's not covered by types 1-3 (e.g. scraping, using acid).
3. The clitoris is the female homologue or equivalent to the male penis.
The question of whether God loves the reprobate depends in part on whether we mean "love" in the sense of affection or love in the sense of acting in the best interests of another. In the context of election, "love" is a synonym for choice, not affection. Conversely, reprobation is a synonym for nonacceptance, not antipathy.
Deletei) The hypothetical Jesus is addressing isn't marriage in general but Levirate marriage in particular. Mortality is a necessary presupposition of Levirate marriage. But marriage per se is a creation mandate. It's not an innovation that's introduced after the fall to compensate for mortality.
Deleteii) From what little information we have, Sadducees didn't believe in the afterlife at all. Not an immortal soul. Not an intermediate state. Not the resurrection of the just.
iii) The conversation between Jesus and the Sadducees seems to be truncated because they are discussing the resurrection of the just whereas Jesus mentions the present postmortem survival of the patriarchs during the intermediate state.
iv) In what respect are the saints like the angels in the world to come. Not androgynous, presumably, but immortal. So Levirate marriage is defunct in the world to come.
v) Levirate marriage was just a human custom. It's not as if God's hands were bound by that convention.