Cameron Bertuzzi interviewed a Catholic apologist Matt Fradd:
Cameron asked him how Mary could process so many prayers. His response:
Just because we don't know the mechanism by which something works doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't work, so I don't have any clue at all of how a YouTube livestream...But I guess I'd say God makes the prayers known to the saints.
1. If we have evidence that something is the case, then we don't have to know how it works to know it's real. If something is actual, then it must be possible. If, however, the truth of the claim is the very point in dispute, you can hardly appeal to the claim as if that's a given to deflect the objection.
It's not as if the intercession of Mary is a revealed truth. Divine revelation never says that Mary intercedes for supplicants. That's based on sheer ecclesiastical fiat.
2. In addition, the problem isn't merely due to lack of evidence but prima facie counterevidence. If we don't know that something is a fact, and we have reason to believe it can't be true, then that cuts against the credibility and rationality of the claim. It must overcome a presumption to the contrary.
Sure, God can reveal things to the saints. Reveal things beyond their natural sources of knowledge. But there are limitations on what even an omnipotent God can do with a finite medium. God can often bypass a finite medium to produce an effect directly, but if God is working through or by means of the natural medium, then that imposes a build-in limit on what he can do because creatures have built-in limitations. There are things God cannot enable a creature to do, due to the essential finitude of what it means to be a creature.
3. Fradd says you won't find church fathers criticizing prayer to the saints. But fallacious appeal to authority. Although there's nothing inherently fallacious about the argument from authority–sometimes that's valid, sometimes invalid–there's no reason to think church fathers are privy to what Mary's heavenly activities.
4. Fradd said that according to Calvinism, there is nothing on your part that you do. But that's a half-truth It's true with respect to things like election and regeneration. Beyond that, there are things that Christians must do to be saved. But in Calvinism, they make no independent contribution to their salvation.
"Fradd says you won't find church fathers criticizing prayer to the saints. But fallacious appeal to authority. Although there's nothing inherently fallacious about the argument from authority–sometimes that's valid, sometimes invalid–there's no reason to think church fathers are privy to what Mary's heavenly activities. "
ReplyDeleteYet, the earliest church fathers who wrote extensively on prayer and its mechanics neglected to even mention praying to (with) the saints. How could that be seeing it's so vital?
Mary is the number one reason I'm not a Roman Catholic.
ReplyDeleteIt is so obvious that the Roman church incorporated the pagan cult of the queen of heaven into it's theology.
The church fathers repeatedly criticize prayer to the saints or any being other than God. See the many examples documented here and here.
ReplyDelete