theoldadam said...
Thanks, Ed.
I went over there and threw in my two cents.
I wouldn't expect too much, though.
I have dealt with these hardened Calvinists before.
Often the clay is baked and is so hard that they WILL NOT hear a Word.
http://upstatelutheran.blogspot.com/2010/02/triablogue-says-lutherans-are-on-run.html?showComment=1265099747304#c5734627483289142233
Although Lutherans vehemently reject reprobation, they seem to make an exception in the case of all them Reformed rebrobates!
Now just where did that wisdom come from? :)
ReplyDeleteHmmmmm, maybe you have a point here?
Hmmmmm, maybe not?
But, in any event, if they don't believe in reprobation, they at least must consider you up for probation? Or rather, is it better, an oblation during prayer:::>
"Oh God, I forgive these souls for they know not what they do"?
I have heard it said by at least one Lutheran Theologian/Pastor that the most difficult verse in the Bible is:::>
Mat 6:15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Hey, you guys hate the graciousness that Lutherans see and believe in in the Sacraments.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you expect me to do..go round and round and round with you?
Not me. If you want to be 'religious' and internalize the faith...go ahead.
There are people who are freed from that stuff when they hear of the wonderful things that God has done for them in their Baptisms and the Supper.
That's exactly what it is. I call it 'the older brother syndrome' (prodigal son parable).
Ed has a lot more patience than I do. God bless him.
Ciao.
THEOLDADAM SAID:
ReplyDelete"What do you expect me to do..go round and round and round with you?"
To judge by your performance thus far, I have pretty low expectations. But you could always redeem yourself by offering just one halfway decent argument for a change.
THEOLDADAM SAID:
ReplyDelete"Ed has a lot more patience than I do."
Really? He did a pretty quick disappearing act.
"God bless him."
I see. You only ask God to bless a fellow Lutheran.
I want God to bless you all.
ReplyDeleteMy 'God bless him' remark was for his having more patience than I.
Keeping us OFF the 'religious', internalizing the faith project, is my argument for the real presence of Christ in the Sacraments, and our need to trust in this external Word.
That's basically my argument.
You may not agree, and that's fine.
But at least now you know where I'm coming from.
G'nite...and God bless!
THEOLDADAM SAID:
ReplyDelete"Keeping us OFF the 'religious', internalizing the faith project, is my argument for the real presence of Christ in the Sacraments, and our need to trust in this external Word. That's basically my argument."
So, in practice, you deny the Trinity. You have no use for the work of the Spirit. Only the work of the Son.
"So, in practice, you deny the Trinity. You have no use for the work of the Spirit. Only the work of the Son."
ReplyDeleteHow in the world did you get there from what I said?
That the Spirit works in us is a given. Check out my current blog post.
We believe that the Spirit is doing the good work in us...not that WE are doing it. And that we cannot tell a Christian good work from a heathen good work, since only God knows the heart and our true motives, and since "all our righteous deeds are as filthy rags."
THEOLDADAM SAID:
ReplyDelete"And that we cannot tell a Christian good work from a heathen good work."
So, in Lutheran theology, the work of the Holy Spirit is indistinguishable from heathen works.
THEOLDADAM SAID:
ReplyDelete"All our righteous deeds are as filthy rags."
You keep alluding to this passage from Isaiah. Do Lutherans think the cross of Christ makes absolutely no difference to the spiritual standing of his people? You sound as though it makes no difference whether or not Jesus ever came to die.
theoldadam said...
ReplyDelete"We believe that the Spirit is doing the good work in us...not that WE are doing it."
So what is wrong with Christians who consider the good that God is doing in them?
The Old Adam
ReplyDeleteas I have read this combox and particularly your responses prayerfully now three times, I believe it is time to point out two things from what I sense may be overlooked by you where if you consider them and let the Lord give you understanding you might reconsider and repent, that is turn around and receive these two things and then move forward for the purpose of proclamation and edification.
One, you must not believe in Hell as being a very real possiblity for the Elect souls of man.
I know that we can split hairs and reason about "who is Elect" and is God able to save to the uttermost. Two important things I hope you will agree with about those assertions? One, God knows His Own and seals them. And two, God saves to the uttermost those He seals.
That may be well and good. But the point of making that point is the next one.
When you write this way:::>
theoldman: "....Ed has a lot more patience than I do. God bless him....".
you are conveying to me that I don't much care and my soul isn't worth the fight and by that conveyance your understanding of both the goodness and severity of God is exposed as weak and shallow and you are dull in your senses, which, parenthetically they are suppose to be trained to discern between good and evil.
I cannot think of anything more evil than to care little for the souls of men, especially the Household of the Faith.
What is being demonstrated in here, by these brothers of Triablogue, is the variety and the diversity of God's gifts given to His men and there is validity to the insights of these two very wonderful Reformational perspectives, that are Godsends, not adversaries.
Anyway, take it for what it is worth.
I have learned much from Martin Luther and John Calvin. I learn a lot how to think in this world about both of these great Reformational thinkers because of blogs like Triablogue.
I believe you make some good points. I also believe you make them poorly.