Monday, February 08, 2010

Lourdes & Fatima

“But in Lourdes I am theologically disturbed by the fact that Mary, Queen of Heaven, is presented alone, without her Son, distributing grace herself with both hands. So it is here that ‘the Lady’ who finally made herself known as ‘the Immaculate Conception’ is said to have appeared to the ignorant girl Bernadette Soubirous–interestingly enough, precisely four years after the proclamation of the controversial dogma by the ‘Marian pope’ Pius IX in 1854, who also promptly has the first statue in Lourdes crowned by his nuncio. There is always the same stature of Mary at the front of the square, in the center, up on the church, in the church, No room for the ‘solus Christus’ as mediator,” H. Küng, My Struggle for Freedom: Memoirs (Eerdmans 2003), 154-55.

“Doubts increase when I think of the second famous case of appearances of Mary, Fatima. Later in Lucerne Dr Otto Karrer, a specialist in mysticism, and I are given through the mediation of Karl Rahner the possibility of reading a summary of the original protocol of the appearances of Mary to the children of shepherds in Fatima. For a long time these documents were unknown, and now have been rediscovered in Spain. They were composed by the Lisbon professor of theology Nunes Formigão and published in 1927 under the pseudonym Viconde del Montelo (414) pages of them!). It is immediately clear to me that I needn’t go there as well. With my ‘logistical’ help Otto Karrer sends this summary with a warning letter to various cardinals (including Montini) and bishops. For many indications (two different Madonnas at the same time, an appearance to other people as well, foreknowledge of what is revealed) convince that at least Fatima, though likewise confirmed by popes, is a pious and in some respects contradictory projection by the children (more precisely by the oldest of the three). It is all easy to explain: their mother had previously told them of other appearances in La Salette, where the Queen of Heaven had already appeared to shepherds’ children in 1846. Karrer’s critical analysis has completely convinced me. However, the pilgrim trade in Fatima continues as if there were no doubts. Indeed Paul VI (Montini) and John Paul II (Wojtyla) will enhance the place further by personal appearances. Since the nineteenth century, papalism and Marianism have gone hand in hand,” ibid. 155.


  1. Just what is this document published by Viconde del Montelo, and is it obtainable in English?

  2. There's an interesting lecture by Timothy Kauffman where he points out that in the various alleged apparitians of Mary, those who claim to see her always describe her looking same way in each particular location. Yet, when you compare the descriptions of her from the various locations (Fatima, Medjugorje, Lourdes, etc.) she's wearing different things. Sometimes with different hair and eye color! Either Mary likes to wear contacts and go to the heavenly beauty salon to get her hair dyed, or possibly these are demonic in origin.

    Also, according to Kauffman, scientists have monitored the brainwaves and eye movements of some of the people "fortunate" enough to be chosen to be able see "Mary" and supposedly the change in brainwaves and eye direction is synchronous. And the focal point of their eyes are at the same coordinates. Which suggests that they are actually seeing something.

    The lecture can be downloaded at the Trinity Foundation's website (be careful of their Scripturalism!):,_Timothy_Kauffman.mp3

    The lecture is part of a series from their "Conference on Christianity and Roman Catholicism"

    One of Kauffman's book titles is:

    Quite Contrary: A Biblical Reconsideration of the Apparitions of Mary

  3. Also, Steve, Jason (et al.) I think fans of the blog should be able to financially support your efforts defending the faith. If Dave Armstrong can take in some revenue to pay for books and stuff, you guys should too!

    Even our brother James White has a Resource List on where he can list items he would like to have for the ministry and which supporters of the ministry can purchase for him.

    Here's a link to his:

    Hopefully, envy will lead you guys to set things up for yourselves. :-))


    "Just what is this document published by Viconde del Montelo, and is it obtainable in English?"

    If you can track down his contact info, you could ask Küng directly. You might email one of his publishers. Publishers generally forward correspondence to the author.

  5. Louis,

    Another possibility is if you email some Catholic church historians. They often list an email address on their academic webpage. Just go to the website of some Catholic universities.