Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Peas in a pod

In the wake of the Aurora massacre, Ben Witherington, Roger Olson, and Scot McKnight all jumped on the gun-control wagon. To my knowledge, these three are the three most prominent bloggers in the Arminian blogosphere.

That raises a question: does their theology select for their politics, or vice versa?


  1. I gotta go with vice versa, but then again, I don't know that I share much in common with either theologically.

  2. Well, we need to stage a palace coup to oust the Arminian old guard, then put you and Wintery Knight in charge!

  3. Political liberalism selects for their theology.

    In fact, I think political liberalism begats theological liberalism, whereas, theological conservativism begats political conservativism. Notice the priority in the "begats".

  4. That's the question of the ages, Steve. I think Jesus dealt with that same basic problem in the first century.

    Likewise, great observation by TUAD. Is there a philosopher anywhere who investigates sources of epistemic distortions? Without importing conclusions, the apprehension of truth is natural. But as soon as we start importing conclusions, we distort the truth that is available for us to know. Political liberalism comes from propaganda fueled by a desire from someone to control. It's interpersonal manipulation on a large scale. It's true what they say: you can't con an honest man. So ultimately it trades on the desires of fallen men. So if any revere the scriptures it behooves people invested in the false message to distort what would otherwise free people from ideological control by the infusion of truth.

  5. This is a very parochial issue, although I know Americans don't think so :P Where I am from - Australia - everyone sees the amount of gun-related crime in America, particularly the massacres, as being the product of such liberal gun control. It would be basically unheard of to hear someone promoting US-style gun laws for Australia.

    1. I have a friend living in Sydney who has a far less sanguine experience.

    2. Yes, Australia sounds positively Paradisiacal compared to the US:


  6. Interesting, AMC. To what do you guys attribute gun-related crime in Mexico?

  7. I like Scot as my brother in Christ. I guess I need to check out his stance on guns. Seems so simple to me. But I know there are people who love the Lord, and yet think guns are evil, in and of what they are. That's just weird for me.

  8. I would question baptizing my political position with my religious views.

  9. Steve, I live in Sydney.

    The comment I made was one of relative frequency. No one says countries that have tighter gun controls has no gun crime.

    You will always have a few organised crime groups taking a few shots at each other.

    These events sadly seem to be a recurring theme for the US.

    B.C Hodge,

    I don't know we would consider Mexico as a comparable first world country with strong general non-corrupt government and police force. I would think this has a fair bit to do with.

    1. AMC

      "The comment I made was one of relative frequency."

      Well that's deceptive. The US is the third most populous nation in the world, so, adjusted for population, are gun massacres more frequent in the US than Scotland, Germany, Norway, Canada, &c.?

      For instance, the US population is around 314 MM compared to around 23 MM for Australia.

      "Steve, I live in Sydney...You will always have a few organised crime groups taking a few shots at each other."

      Sounds like a euphemistic way of saying gun control-laws fail to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. How does the old slogan go again: If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

      "These events sadly seem to be a recurring theme for the US."

      Actually, gun massacres are quite rare in the US. And it's hardly confined to the US. Take the Dunblane school massacre, the Hungerford massacre, the École Polytechnique massacre, the Erfurt massacre, the Norway massacre, &c.

      Your kneejerk chauvinism is clouding your judgment.

    2. I live in Sydney too. I've seen heaps of news reports of people getting shot.

      As far as gun massacres in Australia, don't forget the Port Arthur massacres. This led to stricter gun laws and supposedly no mass shootings. Except for the Monash Uni shootings. As well, New Zealand hasn't imposed the stricter gun laws we've done, yet they've been without mass shooting incidents.

      Recently police uncovered a massive gun import ring.

  10. You're free to choose whether or not to be saved . . . but you can't choose to own a gun?

    Free will sure ain't what it used to be.