On Facebook, a Christian expressed disapproval for a paddy wagon with gay propaganda. Predictably, atheists pounced. I then responded on his behalf. Here's my exchange (edited for coherence):
Blair
Pretty awful to insult the brave men and women who put their lives in danger every day to protect us all.
Hays
i) Do you think the police were given a chance to vote on this? Are police who disagree allowed to op-out? This is a policy that's imposed on the police.
ii) Actually, this is a perfect example of an agenda that distracts from legitimate policing. Instead of protecting the public from harm, they become thought-police.
From stories I've read by Peter Hitchens and Mark Steyn, police often protect criminals from the public rather than protecting the public from criminals.
Blair
Tell the homosexual surgeon you want another doctor to look after you.
Hays
Given that AIDS is spread through blood, what about the risk that a homosexual surgeon will accidentally infect the patient?
Blair
Or tell the bisexual police officer disarming a foe in front of your eyes you'd rather she didn't.
Hays
What makes you think he needs a woman to protect him? From what I've read, most UK police don't carry guns.
How is an unarmed women better able to protect a man from an assailment than the man himself? Men are generally stronger than women.
Kafka
I'm interested in his view of how he'd get on against a highly trained female police officer with pepper spray and a truncheon, when he was already engaged in a fight with someone else?
Hays
At the risk of stating the obvious, men in general are much stronger than women. In a fight, men generally have a very significant advantage. Although he may not be a martial artist, he's a man in the prime of life. And he's not overweight. Who do you think has a better chance in hand-to-hand combat with a male assailant? A woman or another man?
In fact, he might have to protect the policewoman rather than the other way round. Truncheon? And what if a male assailant who's far stronger than the policewoman takes her truncheon away and beats her with it?
Pepper spray? Who needs "high-trained police officers" who carry pepper spray? Anyone can use pepper spray.
Kafka
But hey, just for fun - do you think homosexual men (I presume) should be barred from becoming surgeons?
Hays
I don't think surgeons should pose a threat to their patients.
Kafka
Heterosexual people can also get AIDS.
Hays
I made the incontrovertible point that infected blood is a primary conduit for the transmission of AIDS. Kakfa counters with the utterly brilliant observation that heterosexuals can also get AIDS. Indeed, one way is through…infected blood! I appreciate how Kafka unwittingly proves my point.
From what I've read, there's little evidence for the heterosexual transmission of AIDS. There is evidence for the bisexual transmission of AIDS.
McGowan
Steve Hays man. Any chances you could just stop.
Hays
I can certainly empathize with how the losing side of the argument might wish for that to happen.
Duncan
One thing I've noticed from these posts is no matter how low Jonathan goes, steve Hays always manages to go even lower.
Hays
I wasn't the one who trotted out the example of a gay surgeon. It's a simple question of logic:
AIDS is transmitted via blood. If a gay surgeon cuts himself during an operation, he can bleed into the patient, thereby infecting the patient.
Blood makes surgical gloves slippery, and scalpels are extremely sharp, so it's easy to knick himself.
Demonstrate a logical flaw in the reasoning, if you can.
Duncan
Also steve hays my girlfriend is from zimbabwe where 1 in 7 are hiv positive. I suppose using your logic that she shouldn't be doing her job within the NHS?
Hays
So what are you saying?
i) HIV-positive surgeons should operate on patients?
ii) HIV-positive surgeons who have girlfriends or boyfriends should operate on patients?
Or were you referring to non-surgical medical professions?
Duncan
Your logical flaw is in assuming that the gay surgeon has aids.
Hays
i) No, my statement didn't assume that. Rather, homosexual men are at high risk of HIV infection and AIDS. That means a gay surgeon is far more likely to be HIV-positive (or have AIDS). Just statistics. Why expose patients to that gratuitous risk?
ii) BTW, are you conceding that an HIV-positive surgeon should not be allowed to operate on patients?
Duncan
My friends didn't bother pointing this out because most of us would laugh at your statement assuming it was some kind of irony because we simply don't know people like you who could make such horrifying statements without it being a joke of some sort.
Hays
Do you think this is a joke?
Justin
Do we have any statistics on how often a surgeon gets their own blood on their patient? I bet it's close to never.
Hays
You bet?
BTW, a friend of mine in the medical profession mentioned to me that as far as surgeons infecting patients, there's a general category called nosocomial infections, i.e., hospital acquired infections, which includes surgeons and other physicians infecting patients including with serious bugs like HIV, Hep B, Hep C, etc. It actually happens quite often. It's also in part how super bugs like MRSAs spread in hospital environments. In other words, they can just Google nosocomial infections and see there's tons of cases of this happening, and even significant research done on it to try to prevent or minimize it, since it is such a common issue. So it's far from absurd or ridiculous to say a surgeon with HIV or another infectious disease has a likelihood of infecting patients. It's more common than most people realize. Also iatrogenic or physician induced disease overlaps with much of this too.
Kafka
I think you seriously underestimate the difference training makes. Or seriously overestimate his pugilistic skills, or indeed the vast majority of 'assailants' (who are frequently drunk, uncoordinated, unfit braggarts)."
Hays
Why would he need any assistance fending off a drunk, uncoordinated, unfit assailant?
Kafka
The question stands - would you fancy your chances against a physically fit, well-equipped, self-defence and disarm/disable-trained female police officer?
Hays
That obviously depends on what you put up against the policewoman. For instance:
BTW, I've seen lots of overweight police officers, middle-aged police officers, or both. So your physically "fit" police officer is an idealization. Some police officers are young and fit, others are out-of-shape or over-the-hill.
Kafka
OK, this one did give me a giggle.
Hays
The idea of men protecting a woman from an assailant makes you giggle?
Kafka
Pepper spray is an effective tool in temporarily disabling an assailant.
Hays
Which hardly singles out police, unless it's illegal in the UK for private citizens to carry pepper spray. That would be a really dumb policy.
Pepper spray cuts both ways. An assailant can use pepper spray to disable a police officer.
Kafka
Do you think the police should not carry pepper spray? But, presumably, should carry guns?
Hays
As well as private citizens.
Kafka
Do you think homosexual men should not be allowed to be surgeons?
Hays
Do you think they should be required to disclose their HIV status to patients?
Kafka
Or work in the medical profession?"
Hays
Is the fact that you're changing the subject a backdoor admission that you don't think HIV-positive surgeons should operate on patients?
The question at issue wasn't generic "healthcare worker" to patient transmission, but surgeons. And I wasn't the commenter who introduced that example. Your side did that.
Kafka
Do you think women should be excluded from frontline police duties?
Hays
I think there are obviously situations in which a man is better suited to the task.
Kafka
How about homosexual men?
Hays
Actually, it's a mistake to put homosexuals in positions of power over others.
Kafka
Are you, in fact, from the nineteenth century?
Hays
Einstein was from the 19C. I guess that disqualifies the theory of relativity. Darwin was from the 19C. I guess that disqualifies the theory of evolution. Bohr was from the 19C. I guess that disqualifies quantum mechanics.
Kafka
I was putting you up against the policewoman (neither of you has a gun).
Hays
That depends on my physical condition. I gave you an actual example of a man wresting a service revolver away from an armed, "highly-trained" policewoman.
Kafka
Is the Catholic Church abuse scandal not an example of what happens when Christians are put in a position of power over others? Just a thought you understand
Hays
i) I don't regard "Roman Catholic" and "Christian" as synonyms.
ii) No, this is not a generic comparison about "Christians in positions of power over others."
Rather, there's a specific, homosexual correlation. According to the John Jay report, "The largest group of alleged victims (50.9%) was between the ages of 11 and 14, 27.3% were 15-17, 16% were 8-10 and nearly 6% were under age 7. Overall, 81% of victims were male."
When the male to male ratio between the perp and the victim is 8-1, that's a homosexual scandal.
I also mentioned a parallel problem in the BSA. For instance:
That, too, is a homosexual scandal. So there's a pattern.
In addition, homosexuals in positions of power lobby (with some success) to criminalize people who dissent from homosexuality. That's another cautionary example of what happens when homosexuals are in positions of power over others.
Kafka
The people who carried out the abuse you describe professed to be Catholics, and were indisputably paedophiles. How is it irrelevant?
Hays
They were homosexuals abusing teenage boys or younger. Those are the stats.
Kafka
They were (professed) Christian paedophiles. There are countless examples of heterosexual paedophiles systematically abusing children. Should heterosexual people also not be placed in positions of power?
Hays
You're the one, not me, who used the word "pedophile". They are professedly Roman Catholics.
The overwhelming majority of the population is straight. According to a CDC survey, only 1.6% of the American population identified as gay or lesbian.
Given the stats, it's unavoidable that heterosexuals will be in positions of power. There's no alternative.
By contrast, the harm which homosexuals inflict in minors under their authority is avoidable, considering the fact that homosexuals are a tiny fraction of the population.
So it's a question of risk management. The fact that we can't eliminate all abuse doesn't mean we should make no effort to eliminate abuse where we can–especially in documentable high-risk groups.
Kafka
So you are directly advocating discrimination?
Hays
I'm directly advocating the protection of children. Sorry if that bothers you.
BTW, there's nothing unusual or outlandish about advocating "discrimination". That's what laws do: they discriminate. The penal code "discriminates" against various classes based on different types of conduct.
Kafka
And you think that children are best protected by discriminating against homosexuals?
Hays
Children are protected by not putting them under the authority of homosexuals. I've provided documentation. But you don't care about evidence or kids, you only care about your vicious ideology.
Just in general, it's revealing to see the almost completely lack of intellectual leadership from atheists on the culture wars. They jump right on the bandwagon of whatever is popular, whatever has momentum. While they pay lip-service to science, notice how many atheists ignore the biological facts about human sexual dimorphism. How they buy into the unscientific fad of transgenderism.
Thanks for posting this last exchange, I found it instructive. Do you have any citations for your last sentence?
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