Denny Burk transcribed some statements by Albert Mohler:
We do know this much. It is an unmitigated tragedy. It’s a tragedy that an 18-year old young man is dead.
That's one of those typical statements which people often make in situations like this. It seems like the right thing to say. But is it?
Frankly, whether or not his death was an "unmitigated tragedy" depends on what he would have done with his life. Isn't there footage of him roughing up a convenience store clerk? For all we know, his death may have saved innocent lives down the line. If, say, he was going to murder someone two years later, it would be tragic if he didn't die before he had the chance to commit murder. In that case, it would be tragic for the murder victim.
I'm not saying that's a reason to shoot him. It isn't. Whether or not the shooting was justified depends on whether or not the officer had good reason to fear for his own safety. Lethal force is warranted in self-defense. Whether or not it was justified depends on the present (i.e. the circumstances at the time of the shooting), not a hypothetical future.
But when we attempt to evaluate someone's death, especially someone who died young, that's speculative. That makes assumptions about the future. We don't know what they would have done with the rest of their life if they had a normal lifespan. And speculation is a two-way street.
To take a dramatic example, when the explosive belt of a suicide bomber accidentally and prematurely denotes, just killing him rather than the intended victims, his death is not an unmitigated tragedy. And, of course, it's easier to say in that case because we can foresee where his course of action was headed.
In the case of Michael Brown, we can't say one way or the other. It's best to resist the pious platitudes and withhold judgment either way. We are short-sighted.
And after all, Eric Holder is the first African American attorney general of the United States and one who has spent his life as an activist and advocate in the civil rights movement. In this case, he is uniquely equipped and qualified to deal directly with the questions on the ground in Ferguson, Missouri. The rest of us need to hold back and allow the justice system to do its work.
What a preposterous statement. Holder's a radical, like Julian Bond. He views these issues through his jaundiced prism.
But there is another dimension to this… “Americans need to lead with empathy.” That too is something important to the Christian worldview. We need to lead with empathy understanding that the ability to empathize is an ability to understand every single human being around us as our neighbor. Love of neighbor—one of the most important commands of Christ—…should lead us to lead with empathy… And in this case, that means we empathize with those in the African American community who are outraged at what they see as racial injustice. It means we empathize with those who look at the situation and see it as part of a larger pattern of inequity and injustice against young African American males…
No, we shouldn't pander to groundless outrage. The question is whether they are entitled to see a racial injustice. Does that have a basis in fact? Are they seeing an actual injustice, or are they projecting a racial injustice onto something that isn't? They are only entitled to see it that way if they see it as it is.
Is there a larger pattern of inequity and injustice against young black males? To take a dramatic comparison, consider how Hamas or ISIS perceives the world. Is perception a substitute for reality?
Mohler means well, but it's tiresome to read these morally and intellectual soft-bellied statements. Especially on issues like this, we need clearly thinking.
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ReplyDeletePresumably Mohler would agree that loving one's neighbor includes loving them enough to tell them the truth, even - perhaps especially - when the truth is unpopular and unwanted which is sadly all too often the case.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you , Steve, on this issue. Although there has been a history of racial prejudice and injustice for many people in America, we must resist the temptation to cast EVERYTHING in the paradigm of racial injustice. Sometimes circumstances are just the natural working out of sin in one's life. Sin always leads ultimately to death. You are right also, when you say we can never know whether Mr Brown's life would have continued it's downward trajectory from bullying to brutality, but scripture tells us clearly that our days are numbered by a Sovereign Creator before we are born. Only on the FINAL judgement day will Michael Brown find true justice. It remains to be seen whether he will beg for justice or MERCY on that day.
ReplyDeleteGood God, Steve. "Groundless outrage?" "Is there a larger pattern of inequity and injustice against you[ng] black males?" There is a general perception among African-Americans that this is the case. Where do they get this idea from? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? Be serious. How many of the protesters in Ferguson have had less than fair treatment at the hands of Ferguson police? You don't know any better than I do. The protesters are trying to tell us something about that question. Yes, it could be that Darren Wilson was justified in shooting Michael Brown, but based on initial reports it isn't looking particularly good for that theory. If large numbers of African-Americans in Ferguson have had bad experiences with the police in the past, I can understand why they would be sceptical of the official police "line" and want an independent investigation, why they would be extremely angry and frustrated, why they might be tempted to strike out, and why they would demand -- not ask politely for -- justice. Your ostensive stand of measured, sceptical "objectivity" about the likelihood of racist policing is pure race-baiting BS.
ReplyDeleteWith all the young white males who have committed mass murders over the last couple of decades, you might think that there would be an increase in overaggressive police treatment of young white male crime suspects. Oh, you haven't heard that either. Why not? Because the stories get no traction with liberal media? How about because it isn't happening, while is has been and continues to happen with young minority males.
Jim Moore
Delete"Good God, Steve."
By all means resort to exclamations of feigned shock to mask the vacuity of your objections.
"Groundless outrage?" "Is there a larger pattern of inequity and injustice against you[ng] black males?"
Notice that, in context, I didn't say whether or not the outrage was groundless. Rather, I was responding to Mohler on his own terms. He acts as if it doesn't matter. All that matters is the perception of injustice, whether real or imagined.
"There is a general perception among African-Americans that this is the case."
The circular appeal to perception, as if perception is self-warranting. Sorry to disabuse you, but perceiving something to be the case doesn't make it the case. Popular Muslim belief in the Jewish blood libel doesn't make it the case. But thanks for illustrating your nonexistent standards of evidence.
"Where do they get this idea from? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton?"
Having read a number of like-minded writers over the years, one source is fictive kinship. People have an odd habit of identifying with perfect strangers as if they were personally related to them. An imaginary sense of solidarity with the dead, as if they were contemporaries. As if something that happened to blacks in the Antebellum South happened to 21C black Americans.
This isn't confined to blacks by any means. I had an older Southern relative who harbored great hostility toward Gen. Sherman. She'd remark about Sherman's march as if she'd been in Georgia at the time the troops were deploying his scorched-earth tactics. It seemed like just yesterday to her, even though it happened two generations prior.
"Be serious."
Take your own advice.
"How many of the protesters in Ferguson have had less than fair treatment at the hands of Ferguson police"
From what I've read, many of the demonstrators are from out of state.
Cont. "Yes, it could be that Darren Wilson was justified in shooting Michael Brown, but based on initial reports it isn't looking particularly good for that theory."
DeleteInitial reports tends to be the least reliable.
"If large numbers of African-Americans in Ferguson have had bad experiences with the police in the past…"
And your evidence for that is what, exactly?
"I can understand why they would be sceptical of the official police 'line' and want an independent investigation, why they would be extremely angry and frustrated, why they might be tempted to strike out, and why they would demand -- not ask politely for -- justice."
How does burning and trashing their own community further the cause of justice? That's an injustice to the community.
"Your ostensive stand of measured, sceptical 'objectivity' about the likelihood of racist policing is pure race-baiting BS."
The veiled threat of calling me a racist is an empty threat. I can't be bullied by rhetorical intimidation.
In addition, because you're a partisan hack, you erect a false dichotomy. On the one side of those who presume the officer's actions were racially motivated. And this was conditioned by institutional racism. On the other side are law-and-order types who always support the police. You then try to cast me in the latter role.
However, as I've explained, both on this thread and previously, I hold the current law enforcement culture in low esteem. So your formulaic line of attack misses the mark.
That said, the fact that I don't think much of the police doesn't mean I'm predisposed to believe that Officer Wilson executed Michael Brown. You see, even if Wilson were a racist, it would not be in his self-interest to shoot an unarmed black teenager in broad daylight. He has a disincentive to do that. That's asking for trouble.
Mind you, sometimes cops do really dumb things. But there's no presumption that he would act contrary to his own self-interest.
"With all the young white males who have committed mass murders over the last couple of decades, you might think that there would be an increase in overaggressive police treatment of young white male crime suspects. Oh, you haven't heard that either. Why not? Because the stories get no traction with liberal media? How about because it isn't happening, while is has been and continues to happen with young minority males."
i) To begin with, I notice that you don't volunteer comparatives statistics. That's revealing.
ii) You also beg the question by asserting "overaggressive" police treatment.
BTW, I don't deny that law enforcement is sometimes guilty of police brutality. Take the Abner Louima case. That's one advantage of having so many camera phones. it captures police brutality, which discourages police brutality.
iii) Since many policemen are, themselves, minority males, you'll have to explain to me why you think minority policemen have a penchant for singling out fellow minorities.
"and want an independent investigation"
DeleteSurely you're not alluding to Eric Holder's meddling. You might as well have Stokely Carmichael for Attorney General.
As just one example of just how corrupt he is:
http://dailysignal.com/2014/08/17/hiding-inspector-generals-say-obama-obstructing-justice/
Steve,
DeleteI tried replying to you a couple of nights ago but it seems to have disappeared. Don't know if I just blew the captcha or you removed it for some reason. It was very late at night, so I probably just screwed up the captcha and didn't realize it. I'm going to try again.
"Notice that, in context, I didn't say whether or not the outrage was groundless. Rather, I was responding to Mohler on his own terms. He acts as if it doesn't matter. All that matters is the perception of injustice, whether real or imagined."
I'll point out below in more detail that while you don't explicitly say the outrage is groundless, you imply it by a series of clever rhetorical moves that leave you enough room to make this denial, while still leaving a reader with a distinct impression that the outrage is groundless. As for Mohler's comments, I haven't read them in any detail and won't attempt to defend them directly. It is worth pointing out that empathy is not a truth-seeking act. Ultimately, if you are going to do any good for a person who claims to have been misused or those who supposedly misused her you are more likely to succeed if you know why the misused person made the claim. Truth-seeking is needed but it isn't empathy. You said in the OP that whether the outrage is groundless is the question. Hardly, unless your statement is a rhetorical device to prejudice the reader against the attempt to view the situation from the viewpoint of protesters with legitimate grievances.
"The circular appeal to perception, as if perception is self-warranting. Sorry to disabuse you, but perceiving something to be the case doesn't make it the case. Popular Muslim belief in the Jewish blood libel doesn't make it the case. But thanks for illustrating your nonexistent standards of evidence. "
Why didn't you keep reading further before commenting on one sentence? The main point of the rest of the paragraph is that the very existence of protests is a piece of evidence that there are legitimate grievances. Of course that fact doesn't establish the case by itself. I already pointed you to other pieces of evidence in my comments on your Ferguson post. See this for more.
Time to get to work. I'll add more later.
It's amusing to read your conspiratorial suspicions about how I'm concealing my true views through a series of rhetorical moves. I'm a pretty unlikely candidate for someone who keeps his real views to himself. If anything, I suspect I have a reputation for being pretty outspoken.
DeleteIronically, I'm not saying anything some black columnists aren't saying. For instance:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/19/Larry-Elder-Blasts-Odd-Duck-Rand-Paul-for-Telling-Blacks-Cops-Are-Out-to-Get-Them
http://triblive.com/opinion/1866426-74/black-blacks-whites-percent-victims-war-attacks-chicago-cities-crime?printerfriendly=true#axzz3BRFTISeF
But perhaps you think these black columnists are harbor racial animosity towards their own race.
According to the census bureau, blacks outnumber whites in Ferguson by more than two to one:
http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=CF
So why are they complaining about how the local authorities treat them? What's stopping them from electing a black mayor, black police chief, black councilmen, adding more blacks to the police force? Why the passivity? It would be more effective to express their views through the voting booth rather than placards.
Steve,
DeleteFirst off, I need to apologize for the speculation that you think the Ferguson protesters got the idea that the police are racist from Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. That was a cheap shot and I regret letting it stand.
Attributing their perception to "fictive kinship" for everyone who did not have direct, past experience of misuse at the hands of police makes eminent sense, provided one understands fictive kinship properly. Unfortunately, your definition and examples are prejudicially inaccurate. You start with the claim that fictive kinship is an "odd habit of identifying with perfect strangers," as if there were something inherently fantastic about it. Then the strangers are transported into the distant past. The upshot? The perception on the part of the protesters that they and their fellow African-American citizens of Ferguson are being misused by police is due to the mistreatment of their distant ancestors in the antebellum South. As for their current situation, they have no legitimate grounds for complaint (at least not until the police starting using tear gas, mass arrests, sound cannon, etc. to suppress the protests).
This prejudcial definition of fictive kinship is similar in impact to your selective use of comparisons in the OP: "Is there a larger pattern of inequity and injustice against young black males? To take a dramatic comparison, consider how Hamas or ISIS perceives the world." If all you wanted to do was illustrate inaccurate perceptions of reality, you could have used alien abduction, mass hallucination, or phantom limb syndrome. Instead, you picked two inflammatory examples. Yes, Hamas and ISIS have some very distorted perceptions of what is going on and why, but they are also extremely, cold-bloodedly violent and considered epitomes of evil to most of your readers. You imply that not only are African-Americans wrong about a larger pattern of injustice, but their misperception leads to extremely evil behavior. All the while you've left yourself room to deny it all. Clever rhetoric.
Consider this definition: "Briefly defined, fictive kinship involves the extension of kinship obligations and relationships to individuals specifically not otherwise included in the kinship universe. ... all fictive kin relationships have one element in common: They are defined by criteria distinct from those establishing blood or marriage relationships." Nothing here requires that the people involved have only a fantasy relationship w/ one another, as your definition implies. All it takes for the Ferguson protesters to match this definition is that they know somebody who was or claimed to be misused by police, think to themselves, "Hey, that could easily happen to me or the ones I love and I'd better do something about it before it does," and then take some action with or on behalf of the the person who was or claimed to be misused.
"How does burning and trashing their own community further the cause of justice? That's an injustice to the community."
DeleteIt doesn't. So, how many of the 22000 some people who live in Ferguson were involved in burning and trashing the community? Let's say 500, a number way above any precise figures I can find reported anywhere. Somehow all the others who didn't do this don't count ... as African-Americans? as people who consider the police department of Ferguson racist? as people who want Darren Wilson tried for his actions?
"The veiled threat of calling me a racist is an empty threat. I can't be bullied by rhetorical intimidation."
Neither veiled nor a threat. Your first Ferguson post certainly sounded racist, but I was hesitant to say so. Now that you've doubled-down and added more of the same I'm no longer in doubt. No need to be subtle: your language is racist. If you want people like me to stop saying that about your Ferguson posts you can fix it easily enough. Edit the OPs to be more accurate and precise. I don't get the threat part. What am I going to do to you if you don't fix things?
"...you're a partisan hack..."
That's really funny.
Actually, I don't at all lump you with law and order types. I get your low opinion of law enforcement culture. I never suggested that you think the police are above reproach. My problem is specifically with your equation of "black" with unjustified racial victimhood and collective blaming of everyone else for one's problems.
As for the specifics of what happened between Officer Wilson and Michael Brown, we'll see what comes of the investigations. The odds of Officer Wilson going to trial are low, much less of being convicted of a crime. This is true even if a good case can be made against him.
"Since many policemen are, themselves, minority males, you'll have to explain to me why you think minority policemen have a penchant for singling out fellow minorities."
Sure, how about 1.) poorer communities tend to have higher crime rates, and minorities tend to live in poorer communities; 2.) very few minority males get to police communities that are largely white. Hm, I wonder why that is? 3.) what statistics do you have that minority police officers arrest minority suspects at the same rate as white police officers?
Jim Moore
Delete"As for their current situation, they have no legitimate grounds for complaint…"
I've taken no position on that. Rather, I was responding to how Mohler chose to frame the argument. I appreciate the fact that you can't honestly rebut my post, so you resort to persistent misrepresentations. That's a tacit concession of defeat on your part. Keep up the good work.
"You imply that not only are African-Americans wrong about a larger pattern of injustice, but their misperception leads to extremely evil behavior. All the while you've left yourself room to deny it all."
If I've "left myself room to deny it," then that's not a logical "implication" of what I wrote. But I appreciate how you seamlessly combine fallacious reasoning with paranoia. At least your consistently irrational.
BTW, Thabiti Anyabwile's latest post ("One thing my mother would not let me become") is a perfect and timely illustration of how I define fictive kinship. He goes all the way back to the late 1600s, as if blacks in 2014 have a psychic link to 17C blacks. Collective consciousness.
Jim Moore "It doesn't. So, how many of the 22000 some people who live in Ferguson were involved in burning and trashing the community?"
DeleteHow do 22,000 residents equate with the demonstrators? Are you claiming there were 20,000 demonstrators?
"Now that you've doubled-down and added more of the same I'm no longer in doubt. No need to be subtle: your language is racist. If you want people like me to stop saying that about your Ferguson posts you can fix it easily enough."
I don't care what people like you say about my Ferguson posts. I don't respect your opinion. I don't value your esteem. I don't wake up every morning, asking himself, "How can I make Jim Moore proud of me?" Winning your approval is not one of my objectives in life.
"My problem is specifically with your equation of 'black' with unjustified racial victimhood and collective blaming of everyone else for one's problems."
Actually, I got that equation from black commentators like Thabiti Anyabwile et al.
I read Mohler's piece with similar dismay at his "soft-bellied" response. I kind of feel like every time one of these racial incidents happen, the response is similar to how Islamic radicalism is responded to. If you tell things straight up then there is a fear of inciting riots, further terrorists acts, and broad condemnation. It is singularly unhelpful and probably more harmful than anything else.
ReplyDelete