That approach to healing and the gifts (plural) of healings (1 Cor. 12:9) (the healing gifts are the only one of the gifts that have a double plural) - that approach that Piper takes allows one to retain these verses as applicable to today and also clearly teach it under the sovereignty of God (I Cor. 12:11; Hebrews 2:4), and that approach is very attractive; but I Cor. 12:7 says "to each one is given . . . " seems to indicate that "each believer" has a permanent gift. The approach of Piper's explanation is that God gives the gifts of healings, etc. on different occasions at the moment of the need under His sovereign will. Even he is uncomfortable with "healers". But it seems there is tension between "to each one" - permanent that can be used at will as the apostles and the apostolic associates (Steven, Philip) seemed to do in Acts vs. the idea of "according to the need of the moment when the church is gathered". (not permanent)
I have wrestled with this issue for over 30 years and I always seem to default to the cessationist position as a practical matter because of the problem of subjectivity; and also because I never see anything extra-ordinary happen (as in the book of Acts, etc. ) but at the same time desire for God to work and heal people and do miracles in breaking through the hardness of heart and culture in the Islamic world.
I wasn't plugging his position on miraculous healing and the spiritual gifts, but simply relaying his personal anecdote about possession and deliverance.
I need to watch the deliverance one again. We have had a few experiences like that in Turkey and among Iranians in the USA also - but sometimes - one time I can think of - the person who was supposedly delivered, was acting and admitted it later just to get the Charismatics (guest preachers from another state) to stop all their surrounding her and praying in tongues and shouting and casting out demons. She fainted and then claimed to repent and believe in Christ. When I visited her later with another Iranian pastor, she said, "no, I did not trust Christ". and "I was just trying to get them to stop all that stuff".
Over 100 (admittedly subjective) testimonies of people who have been able to stop what they originally believed to be experiences of "alien abduction" (and similar experiences) by calling on and invoking the name of Jesus. www.alienresistance.org/stop-alien-abduction/testimonies-of-freedom/
I just did a random google search and I think I found an online copy of Ed Murphy's The Handbook for Spiritual Warfare. Though, it's not the newest edition. I've browsed through the book before, but not enough to be able to fully endorse it.
Murphy's book seems to be a bit extreme. Here's a classic Puritan work on spiritual warfare that most every genuine Christian would welcome. It's Thomas Brooks' classic Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices
I'm personally convinced that even if the original source(s) of depression in a Christian wasn't demonic, it'll always end up having some demonic element that's aggravating it. Demons watch and can tell when you're feeling low and the devil and demonic minions don't fight fair. They will kick you while you're down and will never give you a chance to get back up or even catch your breath. Like earthly predators in the animal kingdom (e.g. lions), they will look in the herd for the stragglers, or the weakened, or injured, or the young, or the old (i.e. the mature Christian who might be battle weary) and pounce on them. That's why it's so important not to be ignorant of the devil's schemes.
Regarding the first video on healing -
ReplyDeleteThat approach to healing and the gifts (plural) of healings (1 Cor. 12:9) (the healing gifts are the only one of the gifts that have a double plural) - that approach that Piper takes allows one to retain these verses as applicable to today and also clearly teach it under the sovereignty of God (I Cor. 12:11; Hebrews 2:4), and that approach is very attractive; but I Cor. 12:7 says "to each one is given . . . " seems to indicate that "each believer" has a permanent gift. The approach of Piper's explanation is that God gives the gifts of healings, etc. on different occasions at the moment of the need under His sovereign will. Even he is uncomfortable with "healers". But it seems there is tension between "to each one" - permanent that can be used at will as the apostles and the apostolic associates (Steven, Philip) seemed to do in Acts vs. the idea of "according to the need of the moment when the church is gathered". (not permanent)
I have wrestled with this issue for over 30 years and I always seem to default to the cessationist position as a practical matter because of the problem of subjectivity; and also because I never see anything extra-ordinary happen (as in the book of Acts, etc. ) but at the same time desire for God to work and heal people and do miracles in breaking through the hardness of heart and culture in the Islamic world.
I wasn't plugging his position on miraculous healing and the spiritual gifts, but simply relaying his personal anecdote about possession and deliverance.
Deleteyeah, I see that - you were just linking to it.
DeleteI need to watch the deliverance one again. We have had a few experiences like that in Turkey and among Iranians in the USA also - but sometimes - one time I can think of - the person who was supposedly delivered, was acting and admitted it later just to get the Charismatics (guest preachers from another state) to stop all their surrounding her and praying in tongues and shouting and casting out demons. She fainted and then claimed to repent and believe in Christ. When I visited her later with another Iranian pastor, she said, "no, I did not trust Christ". and "I was just trying to get them to stop all that stuff".
The late Reformed minister Ferrell Griswold's experiences on the subject of Possession, Oppression and the Occult www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1220071430123
ReplyDeleteThe late Dr. Kurt E. Koch's book (complete?) Between Christ and Satan [alternatively titled "The Lure of the Occult"]
www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/between_christ_satan_koch_e.htm
Excerpts from Dr. Koch's Occult ABC www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/occult_abc_koch.htm
Over 100 (admittedly subjective) testimonies of people who have been able to stop what they originally believed to be experiences of "alien abduction" (and similar experiences) by calling on and invoking the name of Jesus.
www.alienresistance.org/stop-alien-abduction/testimonies-of-freedom/
I just did a random google search and I think I found an online copy of Ed Murphy's The Handbook for Spiritual Warfare. Though, it's not the newest edition. I've browsed through the book before, but not enough to be able to fully endorse it.
DeleteMurphy's book seems to be a bit extreme. Here's a classic Puritan work on spiritual warfare that most every genuine Christian would welcome. It's Thomas Brooks' classic Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices
DeleteI'm personally convinced that even if the original source(s) of depression in a Christian wasn't demonic, it'll always end up having some demonic element that's aggravating it. Demons watch and can tell when you're feeling low and the devil and demonic minions don't fight fair. They will kick you while you're down and will never give you a chance to get back up or even catch your breath. Like earthly predators in the animal kingdom (e.g. lions), they will look in the herd for the stragglers, or the weakened, or injured, or the young, or the old (i.e. the mature Christian who might be battle weary) and pounce on them. That's why it's so important not to be ignorant of the devil's schemes.