Thursday, May 28, 2009

The Vicar in Til


“T-fan -- don't assume these guys are vantillian. They are not! I am now officially writing them off as agnostics that have an itchy intellectual interest in Christianity.”

It’s true that I’ve not been speaking on behalf of Van Til. I’ve only been speaking for myself.

I realize, though, that as a man who, among other things, recently defended the old custom of white and colored restrooms, drinking fountains, &c., Tim speaks with a moral authority which I’d be contumacious to resist. So I must humbly bow to his magisterial verdict. If I can’t be a Van Tilian in good standing unless I don a white sheet, then I guess that agnosticism will be my portion.


  1. Brilliant repartee. Coming from thee o thou great logician, this must certainly not count as an ad hominem!

    Of course, and obviously, you speak only for yourself STEVEHAYS. But T-fan mentioned something in passing that indicated that he, and therefore probably many others, associate you and yours with van Til.

    (Readers interested in following up on such rabbit-trails may note a distinction between defending an old custom and challenging the shibboleths that celebrate its end, by looking here. Also, I'll bet a Franklin that Hays knows very little about the circumstances of that organization, in its first or second historical manifestation, commonly associated with sheets.)

  2. Hays on the Judgment Day: "Lord, granted I wasn't sure about this Jesus guy; but at least I could always be relied on to throw rocks at racists!"

  3. This Van Tillian stopped reading First Word a while ago. A very sad situation over there.

    When I think of Van Tillian apologetics, Michael Butler nor Tim Harris come to mind. While I do not agree with everything on T-blog, it would be one of the first I'd recommend.

  4. Tim Harris,

    Steve is "sure" about Jesus.

    Tim on Judgment day: "Lord, I know I talked a lot about apologetics but never did it, but hey, I sure ripped it up on the movie reviews and baseball analysis!"

  5. I have to agree that Butler and Harris have really drifted into obscurity (or worse).

    This really is a shame because I think they are smart guys who otherwise could have something to contribute.

    However, as a third party who has watched Steve and Tim go at it in the past and read all the relevant material, I must admit that at times Steve has come off more like a pendulum simply swinging in the opposite direction than a person carefully interacting with Tim's position.

    From my perspective, both sides need to do more careful interaction.

  6. Jeff -- this really isn't about you; nor me. But in any case, don't be sad, be happy! And you will be back -- the longer you wait, the more catching up will be needed.

    Paul -- no, I don't talk that much about apologetics.

    Red -- I haven't really "gone at it with Steve" at all -- his attacks have been in the form of insults, at the level of "your mother wears army boots," so there is not much to interact with. However, I would still be interested in your critique of our position. Preferably log an argument in the comm-box of the post you demur from.