Tuesday, November 27, 2012

The moral test

2 “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. 3 I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. 4 And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, 5 then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech (Lev 20:2-5).

30 take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ 31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods (Deut 12:30-31).

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer (Deut 18:10).

27 Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place and offered him for a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel. And they withdrew from him and returned to their own land (2 Kgs 3:27).

According to these passages, doesn’t the Bible treat gross immorality as a mark of false religion? The moral abomination of child sacrifice was one reason the cult of Molech was a false religion.

This raises a question for Roman Catholics. Can representatives of Rome do anything sufficiently heinous that this would call into question Rome’s claim to the one true church? Is there any line they cannot cross?

Suppose the Vatican ordered priests to perform child sacrifice every Sunday. Burn a baby alive at the alter.

Would that be sufficient to discredit Roman Catholicism, or would loyal Catholics resort to the usual excuses, viz. the Pope is not impeccable, God never promised sinless priests, &c.

Is there any conceivable scenario under which the church of Rome could, in principle, be falsified by the same standards as the Bible applies to pagan practice?


  1. You need the Magisterium to infallibly determine what those passages mean or you cant understand it.

    Strange they never say that to atheists at CA Forums when atheists interpret scripture about slavery in the Bible.

    Someone somewhere else wrote something like this:
    Why are they not giving us *THE* infallible interpretations of those passages? Are they able yet unwilling or willing yet unable? If they are able AND also willing, then they do a sin of omission by not giving us the infallible interpretation, since they can easily do it.
    If sins of omission accumulates down 2000 years, does that count as "quite bad"? I mean, if they claim that others are twisting scripture, they should at least rectify it, rather than let the others twist to their destruction. If I had the ability to use infallible judgement for a common good such as to prevent twisting of scripture to destruction, I would.

    Of course, that was someone's non-infallible comment on James 4:17.

    Ok, if that passage is too hard for them to interpret for us, then at least infallibly tell us if the Bible teaches Evolution or Creation. If a scientist proves them wrong, then the Fundamentalist apologists will rescue them.

    One scenario, which may involve pagan practice may be the Ecumenical conference with Animists, Buddhists etc, where crucifixes in rooms were covered so as to avoid offending people from other religions. Now is that counted as "partaking"/"approval" of pagan rituals? I mean, they could have sent them to some nearby temple in Rome or some plane room to worship those pagan devils. Someone infallible also kissed a Quran I think (some apologist said that JPII mistook the Quran for something else [But does that apologist accurately reflect the church's position?]). Someone infallible also spoke of the Holy spirit being linked with some of these pagan religions. Of course, if these events were written down and they indeed were recorded, someone has to interpret them and I am indeed fallible, but its pretty obvious that what happened that year wasnt too brilliant, you can download the several videos from www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com and see for yourself. Lets hope that they repent from the error and never let such pagan ecumenism occur again.

    This is why if I ever become Catholic, I would become a traditionalist rather than submit to "antipopes" or whatever Sedevacantists like Most Holy Family Monastery call them. BTW, Latin masses seem so much more beautiful than the current ones, I cant see why any Catholic would prefer the New Mass to the Traditional ones.

  2. A good book could and should be written about the cult of personality that grew up around JP2. I don't think anyone would say he was in the front ranks of European theologians or philosophers, but he becomes pope and suddenly he is the greatest theologian, philosopher, churchman and statesman in history. If Luther or Calvin kissed the Koran we wouldn't hear the end of it from Dave Armstrong or Mark Shea.

    Can anyone tell me what JP2 did to make the catholic church less liberal? I'm sure he did one or two things, but I can't think of them.