Wednesday, June 20, 2007

"Miserable Comforters Are You All!" (Job 16:2)

John W. Loftus said:

Jay Adams was the pioneer back to Biblical counseling. Adams was to counseling like Luther was to the Reformation.

Ha Ha. You're kidding right?

Wow. You really are off the wall.

All truth is God's truth, silly. Sheesh. It has to be if God exists.

You might as well ignore all of the findings of linguistics and just say language developed at the Tower of Babel debacle.

That's right. Ignore all other knowledge. Trust an ancient book written by superstitious people. Beat your children. Tell suicidal people they are right, life is depressing and try to convert them (if you don't then they go away even more depressed--that's Jay's advice ya know).

6/20/2007 8:38 PM
As usual, Loftus has to jump into a discussion he knows nothing about and broadcast his ignorance--in disconnected and unintelligible sentences, that is.

I find Loftus' comment a bit confusing. First of all, he didn't quote me in context, because my next statement read, "But like Luther, he would need other reformers to come along and help refine and apply the progress that he had made. Steve has written a critical review of Adams in the past. Personally, I have found many of Adams’ works helpful. You just need to weed out some of his more hyperbolic or simplistic statements. But generally, I find guys like Welch or Powlison more helpful."

Secondly, why is Loftus asking if I am kidding? Calling Adams the pioneer back to Biblical counseling is, at least in Loftus' mind, not the same thing as calling him an effective counselor. Does Loftus disagree that Adams at least attempted to derive his counseling methods from Scripture? Whether or not those methods were correct is a separate issue.

But, like most of the subjects he took at seminary, Loftus has only learned enough in this category to misunderstand and misrepresent it.

However, let's turn the tables on Loftus. Let's ignore "an ancient book written by superstitious people" and become informed by "all other knowledge." John: your friend confides in you and confesses his suicidal thoughts. What are you going to tell him? What hope do you have to offer him?


  1. By the way, on what objective moral basis does Loftus find the Bible morally deficient?

    Obviously, Loftus is misrepresenting the redemptive and restorative discipline of spanking when he says, "Beat your children." But let's say that beating is the very thing Scripture commands. Why does Loftus, as a moral anti-realist, find a problem with this? At best it is either his personal opinion or the social consensus.

  2. Consolation of Irreligion

    Dear Suicidal Friend,

    While life is ultimately meaningless and all of your actions amount to a cosmic zero you should still live and enjoy life. You SHOULD live for your family, and find your meaning in the every day pointless things that you do. I hope this helps and if you ever need one, I will be here to give you a big hug.

    Johnny Boy

  3. And don't forget that there are many good antidepressant drugs in the world. They can help take you away from reality.

  4. Or, rather, do not live for your family. Dump the wife and kids, find a mistress, move to Las Vegas and enjoy (whatever that means) the rest of your meaningless existence.

    Oops, wait … what day is this?

  5. By the way, I was a follower of Jay Adam's at one time. I find it surprising that you think you can get away with saying I know nothing about the topic. Adam's advice is exactly what I said it was. I know. I did a master's paper on suicide and argued against his advice.

    It's obvious that parents should not beat their kids. And it's obvious that one should want to stay alive even if death ends it all. It's also obvious (to me anyway) that you have no ultimate foundation for morality simply because of the historical development of Christian ethics through history (but that's another discussion).

    Furthermore, you really have never tried to understand an atheistic ethic. I am arguing for one on my blog. Stay tuned.

  6. I read Adams' books more than 30 years ago, sold them after a few years (or gave them away), and haven't given them much of a thought since.

    But here's a question for you. You continually label me as a stupid no-nothing, who is completely ignorant of what I'm talking about (or close to it). You can continue doing that if you'd like to do so, but what does this say about your credibility? Intelligent people who actually take the time to read what I write on my Blog will think otherwise. So then they will have to assess YOUR credibility when it comes to me. If they judge that I am not as stupid as you say, then what will they think of you? Just another stupid question from me. ;-) You can deal with my arguments without "poisoning the well," ya know. That will increase what people who read your blog will think of you. But to call me ignorant...well, that's not true and you know it. But if it makes you feel better...I cannot stop you from digging your own grave.

  7. And don't forget that there are many good antidepressant drugs in the world. They can help take you away from reality.

    People on antidepressants aren't taken away from reality. This is a fundamental misunderstanding. These drugs help a faulty upload of serotonin stablize itself. Often, the depressed person is the one living away from reality. These medications help correct that. Users of these drugs are not walking around in a fog, as habitually mischaracterized.