Monday, September 18, 2006

Islam: The Muslim Message, Menace, and Meltdown

(This is a copy of a talk I gave to a high school group. I was invited to speak on Islam. I only had 45 minutes to speak, so there are obviously holes and gaps in it. Nevertheless, since I printed up what I was going to say it makes for an easy post here.)

Islam: The Message, The Menace, The Meltdown

1. The Message: History, Qur’an, The 5 Pillars

1.1 A Brief History of Islam.
1.1.1 Muhammad’s early life.
1.1.2 Muhammad’s conversion.
1.1.3 Muhammad’s early ministry.
1.1.4 Muhammad’s later ministry.

1.2 The Qur’an (The Muslim Holy Book).
1.2.1 The history of the Qur’an.
1.2.1 The structure of the Qur’an..

1.3 The 5 Pillars of Islam
1.3.1 Shahadah (declaration of faith).
1.3.2 Salat (prayer).
1.3.3 Zakah (alms giving or tithe).
1.3.4 Ramadan (fasting).
1.3.5 Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca).

2. The Menace

2.1 Islam is a major world religion.

2.2 Many Muslim’s desire the reinstatement of the Caliphate.

2.3 The Qur’an supports jihad.

2.4 The actions of Muslim’s since the beginning supports jihad.

2.5 Islam has never been a force for peace except when in the minority.

3. The Meltdown: Sweating, Liquefied, Vaporized

3.1 Sweating: A look at the hadiths.

3.2 Liquefied: A look at Muhammad’s life and the Qur’an.
3.3 Vaporized
3.3.1 If the Qur’an is true, then it is false.
3.3.2 No sin, no redemption, no just God, no just God no assurance.

Islam: The Message, The Menace, The Meltdown

Though Islam claims to be in the direct line of descent from Judaism and Christianity, we can, for our purposes, date the beginning of Islam with Muhammad, who was born, roughly, in 570 A.D.. As soon as Muhammad was born it is claimed that he fell to the ground and, taking a handful of dust, he proclaimed, “God is great!” It is also reported that he came out of his mother’s womb with his umbilical cord already cut. Despite the little oddities of having lights follow him and his presence causing floods, Muhammad had an otherwise normal childhood. At age 25 he married his first wife, Kahdija, who was 40 years old at the time.

During this time Mecca was dominated by Pagan thought and Muhammad had, like many other’s of his day, grown disinterested in the Paganism of his day. This was not so odd since many other prominent businessmen had denounced paganism and traded it in for either faith in Judaism or Christianity. Muhammad would retreat, it is reported, for one month a year to pray in seclusion. After many years of this, at the age of 40, Muhammed felt that he had received a call from God through the angel Gabriel. At first, though, he was afraid of this vision, thinking it may have been a jinn, or evil spirit. Thankfully Kahadija convinced Muhammad that this was no jinn but was the true God and that what had happened to Muhammad had happened to Moses, despite the unfortunate little details that in Muhammad’s case he was attacked by Gabriel, who bullied Muhammad into reading something and also told Muhammad that God made man from blood clots. After this first revelation Muhammad remained silent for about three years and then began his ministry by preaching to his friends and family first, and then publicly soon after.

Initially Muhammad gained a very small following, mostly made up of young people, but Meccans opposed his ministry. This opposition resulted in some persecution by the polytheist Meccans who did not like Muhammad’s teaching of God’s oneness. Muhammad had told the Meccans, after some public scoffing and physical abuse, that their polytheistic gods could be considered divine and had intercession effectual with his God’s. Later, Muhammad retracted this and believed that he was indwelt by evil spirits, many of Muhammad’s sayings were later denied by him or other Muslims and have come to be known as “the Satanic verses.” Muhammad did not gain the acceptance he desired in Mecca and that, coupled with the death of his wife in 619, caused Muhammad to flee Mecca and go to Medina. This is called “The Hijra” or, “the flight” and it marks the beginning of Muslim calendars.

Medina accepted Muhammad and his teachings, by and large. At first Muhammad taught the brotherhood he shared with both Jews and Christians, referring to them as fellow “people of the Book.” But Muhammad failed to receive support in Median from the other so-called people of the book. Both the Jews and Christians denied Muhammad and his teachings. This caused a change in Muhammad’s relationship towards the Jews and Christians: He altered the prayer direction from Jerusalem to Mecca, he changed the time of fasting from the feast of Ashura to the whole month of Ramadan, the latter Qur’anic claims about Jews and Christians became more severe in their criticism and at this time the focus shifted to Abraham as a central figure in history, thus further distinguishing himself from the Jews, who had Moses at the center, and the Christians who had Jesus at the center of history.

At this point in history Muhammad had to fund his ministry as well as the Meccans who fled Mecca without much of their belongings. So Muhammad and his followers started to raid caravans. These raids were largely unsuccessful for the first 18 months. But then some large battles occurred in which Muhammad and his followers eventually took control of the region. Muhammad won the battle of Badar while being outnumbered 3 to 1 by Meccan forces. Next, he lost the battle Uhud. The Meccans decided to crush Muhammad in what is knows as the siege of Medina. Muhammad stayed in the city and because of harsh weather and various tribes Muhammad had struck a deal with, the Meccans were unable to take over Medina. This silent victory led to the conquest of Mecca. Muhammad took Mecca and established it as the religious center of his ministry, 4 years later Muhammad died.

When Muhammad died, he left no document appointing a successor. Some people thought that one of the original converts who had taught with Muhammad should take over, some wanted a member of a powerful political family in the area, and others felt that 'Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, had been divinely designated as successor. An early believer, Abu Bakr was appointed, but died within two years.

Eventually, a power struggle developed as different groups of Muslims believed their method of establishing a successor were the best. These successors were called Caliphs. The largest argument was over whether the successor should be elected, or chosen through heredity. This controversy produced the main “denomination” of Islam known as the Sunnis (followers of the prophet's way) and other numerous sects including the Shi'a and the Sufis. The Sunnis are the majority in Islam today. Islam means to “submit” and a Muslim is “one who submits.”

The teachings Muhammad is said to have received from Allah through the angel Gabriel make up Islam’s holy book called The Qur’an. The Qur’an was compiled after Muhammad’s death. Muhammad did not write down his revelations but gave them orally to others. The Qur’an was said to be revealed by Gabriel over a period of 23 years. After each occasion Muhammad would recite what he had heard to some of his followers (Qur’an means “reciting”). They would in turn either memorize portions, or write it down on stones, palm leaves, shoulder blades, ribs, and bits of leather. In a large battle a year after Muhammad’s death, most of those who could recite the Qur’an from memory died. Thus the second Caliph, Umar, commanded that the recitings written down be collected so that the knowledge of what was inside it would not fade away. Later, under the third Caliph Uthman, it had been reported that there were different versions of the Qur’an floating around. Different sects used different readings. Ulthman had a revised version made and all other copies were ordered to be burned. The Ulthamic version is what we have today.

The Qur’an is shorter than the New Testament. It is divided in to 114 chapters, called suras. The suras are further divided into verses, called ayat. The shortest sura has 3 ayats while the longest sura has 286 ayats. Our Bible is subdivided into the Old and New Testaments, the Qur’an is subdivided into the “Meccan Period” and the “Medinan Period.” In the Meccan period Muhammad mostly calls men to moral reform, and he is primarily a “warner.” As people rejected the early teachings of the Qur’an, the suras get longer and more argumentative in nature. The Medinan period portrays Muhammad as the beautiful model. He turns from preacher to prince. He proclaims that he was sent by God to show mercy. We read of civic responsibilities and socially relevant questions are answered. Lastly, the Qur’an is said to have existed eternally has the Mother of Books in heaven. The Qur’an, then, is the eternal word of God which descended to Muhammad in order to be the final and most important light for mankind.

Islam has many teachings but the ones you should be most familiar with are the five most foundational teachings of Islam -The 5 Pillars. The first pillar is the Shahada. This is their statement of faith. When one recites it one says “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger. The second pillar is Sadat, or, prayer. Prayers are required at least five times a day - morning, afternoon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. Also, when you pray you must face Mecca. The third pillar is Zakah, or, tithes. Muslims are to recognize that Allah owns everything and so they must give 2.5% of their net balance after paying personal expenses, family expenses, due credits, taxes, etc. The fourth pillar is fasting during the 9th month of the Islamic lunar calendar, Ramadan. Eating, drinking, smoking, evil thoughts and sexual intercourse are not allowed between dawn and sunset. The fifth pillar of Islam is Hajj, or, pilgrimage. Every able-bodied Muslim is required to make one trip to Mecca. The sick and poor do not have to do this.

This concludes our brief look at Islamic history, it’s Holy book, and it’s basic teachings.

The second part of tonight’s talk is called the Muslim Menace. I should not have to convince you that Islam presents a danger not only to the Christian faith, but to all non-Muslims. Today there are roughly 1.4 billion Muslims. Over 1/6th of the Earth’s population is Muslim. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and one of the largest distinct religious groups in America, second behind Christianity.

Islam sees all of life as something which should be brought under submission to Allah. This includes all land and people. Islam has not had a Caliph since 1924, it is the expressed goal of many Muslim’s to unite the Arab lands under one Caliph. Here is part of a transcript given by the state’s witness in the 2001 trial against Al-Qaeda:

Q. Were you present for any conversations where Usama Bin Laden stated what he was going to do after the Russians left Afghanistan?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell us what Usama Bin Laden said he was going to do after the Russians left Afghanistan?

A. He thinking about making group.

Q. Can you explain to us anything else you recall about what he wanted this group to do?

A. To be ready for another step because in Afghanistan everything is over.

Q. And did he explain at that time what that other step was?

A. They say we have to make Khalifa.

Q. Can you explain to the jury what a khalifa is?

A. Khalifa mean we need one Muslim leader for the whole Muslim in the war.

Q. Continue with what else you recall Usama Bin Laden stated he wished to do after the Russians left Afghanistan.

A. He say also we want to change the Arab government because there's no Muslim government in the war, so we have to make Muslim government .

Now, some may say this is an aberration of Qur’anic teaching. But this is clearly revisionist history. First, the Qur’an teaches us in Suras:

  • 8.39 ...fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah...
  • 9:123 "O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you, and know that God is with those who fear Him."
  • 61:4,11-14 "Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure ... that ye believe in God and His Apostle, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the cause of God, with your property and your persons. That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity. That is indeed the supreme achievement.

These ayats make up just a few of the 164 Jihad passages in the Qur’an. You’ll hear that the Muslim menace is just an aberration of Islam, but the problem is that when you have aberration after aberration, the term looses it’s meaning.

Moving on we can look at the history of Islam, here are a few hi-lights:

  • In the 600’s Muslim’s attacked multiple innocent merchants on their way to trade.
  • In the 700-900’s Muslim’s waged many bloody battles.
  • In the 1,000’s Muslim’s attempted to take over Jerusalem, bringing about the crusades.
  • Many wars were fought by the Muslim’s every century until the 1900’s.
  • In 1960 the Prime Minister of Jordan, and 11 others were killed by Muslim bombers.
  • In 1964 the Palestinian Liberation Organization was formed.
  • In 1968 Robert Kennedy was murdered by Jordanian terrorist, Sirhan Sirhan.
  • In 1969 TWA flight 840 to Rome was hi-jacked.
  • In 1972 11 Israeli Olympic athletes were killed by Muslim terrorists.
  • In 1979 The US Embassy in Iran was taken over and 53 hostages were held until 1981. They were released when Ronald Reagan took office.
  • In 1981 Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic Jihadists.
  • In 1983 the US Embassy in Beirut was bombed, 241 US Marines were killed.
  • In 1988 Pan Am flight 103 was bombed over Lockerbie, Scotland; 270 killed.
  • In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed, 6 killed.
  • In 1998 Osama Bin Laden gave his jihad address against the United States.
  • In 2000 the USS Cole was attacked by a suicide bomber.
  • In 2001, September 11th, the Twin Towers were destroyed.
  • On September 12th, 2006, gunmen stormed the Us Embassy in Syria, it failed.

And this is just a sampling! Every single century since Muhammad began his movement, Muslim’s have been a force of terror. You will of course hear people tell you that Islam is a force of peace. But, not one example can be given where Islam has been a force of peace when they were in the majority. Only when Muslims are the minority in a land do they talk peace. This started with Muhammad when he tried to make friends with the Jews and Christians at the beginning of his career, and then tried to demolish them towards the end of his career, after he rose to power. This trend has continued to this day.

So what should we make of Islam? I maintain that despite the strong arm tactics, Islam is really just a paper tiger. It is an intellectually impoverished worldview. There is not one reason why anyone here tonight needs to feel that Islam is a viable alternative in the war of ideas. The Christian can wage his own jihad, but the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty for casting down strongholds and everything which seeks to set itself up against the wisdom of God.

I’ll offer three levels of critique against Islam, ascending in the force of refutation. Since this part of tonight’s talk is titled, The Meltdown I’ll stick with that metaphor for my three levels of critique against Islam. As something melts it goes through three stages. It begins to sweat, then it liquefies, and finally it vaporizes. Let’s begin to make Islam sweat.

Earlier tonight I mentioned the Qur’an as Islam’s authoritative book. Though that is true, Islam has another holy book called the hadith, or, the sayings. The hadiths are said to be the sayings of Muhammad and are important to determining how the Muslim life should be led, practically. There are three classifications of the hadith: (1) what Muhammad said, (2) did, (3) and approved. The overwhelming majority of Muslim’s admit that the hadiths supplement the Qur’an and look to the hadiths for guidance. The hadiths also give insight into how the Qur’an should be interpreted. Hadith-trusting Muslims argue that many Qur'anic instructions are impossible to fulfill without guidance from the hadith. Thus Islamic scholar Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani tells us that,

“In summary, the hadiths of the Prophet (s) are necessary to understand the Qur’an. For every single event in his lifetime, Allah revealed to the Prophet’s heart what to say and what to do. The Qur’an and the hadiths both derive from revelation and are inseparable sources for understanding and implementing the divine message of Islam.”

With that foundation laid, let us embark on a serious look at the religion of Islam in order to ascertain what great truths the prophet Muhammad left for us. In the hadiths we read:

  • God created Adam 90 feet tall.
  • If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified.
  • If you fall asleep while praying, Satan will urinate in your ear.
  • Yawning is from Satan. If you are about to yawn, you should try to stop it as much as possible. If you yawn, Satan will laugh.
  • When someone wakes up from their sleep they should take water in through their mouth and shoot it out their nose (why?) because Satan stays in the upper part of the nose all night.
  • When the call for prayer is made, Satan turns around and passes gas so he will not hear the call for prayer.
  • Muhammad looked in hell and found the majority of its dwellers were women.
  • Once the Prophet, while passing through one of the grave-yards of Medina or Mecca heard the voices of two persons who were being tortured in their graves. The Prophet said, "These two persons are being tortured not for a major sin." The Prophet then added, "Yes! (they are being tortured for a major sin). Indeed, one of them never saved himself from being soiled with his urine.”
  • "The prayer of a person who does Hadath (passes, urine, stool or wind) is not accepted till he performs the ablution.
  • Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.
  • If you pass gas while you are praying, Allah will not hear your prayers.

In response to this the Muslim can regiment himself and claim that the hadiths, though making for an interesting read, are not inspired and Muhammad would have never have said such outlandish things. Indeed, there are Qur’anic only activists within the Muslim community, though they are considered deviant. Or, the Muslim could claim that though they seem ridiculous, if Muhammad taught these things, and prophets cannot lie, then they must be true. Or, there are others who say that some hadiths are more trustworthy than others. Muslim's have developed a method which they say allows them to determine which hadiths are more trustworthy than others, this is called the "science of hadith." We do not have time to analyze this method but it does appear arbitrary and ad hoc. And as Islamic scholar Patricia Crone has pointed out, the decifering method ends up not allowing hadiths which were trustworthy but allowing fabricated hadiths since Muslim's could forge the method. Lastly, even in the "trustworthy" hadiths we read of Muhammad telling people to drink camel urine to cure their sickness, continuing with his fascination with defication and bodily fluids. We can respond to any of these positions by saying that we have just attempted to make the Muslim uncomfortable but we will now turn up the heat.

The next series of critiques will be more powerful than simply scoffing at the hadiths.

One of the proofs offered for the truth of Islam is that of Muhammad’s exemplary life. It has been claimed by Muslim scholars that Muhammad “stands in history as the best model for man in piety and perfection. He is living proof of what man can be and of what he can accomplish in the realm of excellence and virtue.” This is not just a proof, Muslim scholars have claimed that Muhammad’s life is one of “the chief proofs” of Islam. And so it will do well to look at the life of Muhammad if we want to look at one of “the chief proofs” for Islam.

Time will only allow us to look at one aspect of Muhammad’s life tonight. Let’s look at “the best model for man” in marriage. The Qur’an allows and sanctions polygamy. The Qur’an permits up to four wives. Leaving the question of the moral status of polygamy aside, however, we should note that Muhammad saw fit to take over 15 wives, and one of them was a 9 year old girl! Apparently the great moral model had no problem violating Allah’s laws. Some Muslim’s claim that an interpretation of sura 33:50 allowed Muhammad and Muhammad alone to break the previous limit of the number of wives allowed. However, this verse is (1) hotly disputed as to its meaning, and (2) sura 33:52 says that Muhammad is not allowed to take more wives, thus us contradicting sura 33:50, and, lastly (4), the caveat in the Qur’an’s text (s. 4:3) allowing for more than one wife is that the husband is able to deal justly with his multiple wives. The problem this raises for Muhammad is that, as Islamic scholar Hussein Haykal notes, Muhammad “often ignored some of his wives, and avoided others on many occasions.” The reason for this “just act” was that Muhammad did this “in order to discourage their abuse of his compassions.” Haykal goes on to note that the controversy his favoritism caused between the wives made Muhammad think of divorcing some of them. Unfortunately, even if the Qur’an allowed for Muhammad to take more than four wives we do not read that it allowed Muhammad to deal unjustly with them. Therefore, since Muhammad couldn’t meet one of the obligations of having more than one wife then he should not have taken more than one, even if the Qur’an allowed him to. Put differently, even granting that Muhammad was allowed more than four wives and therefore he did not violate God’s commands, he still did not follow the other part of the command and thus he still violated one of God’s command.

The second critique we’ll offer in the liquification of Islam is against the Qur’an. Another proof for the truth of Islam is what’s called “the unity of the Qur’an.” It has been claimed by Muslim scholars that “the unity of the Qur’an is greater than that of any book.” And, if we look at “its total consistency from beginning to end … it becomes impossible to ascribe the Qur’an to human authorship.” Two problems with this claim are: (1) does this claim provide proof of the Qur’an’s divine authorship and (2) is it true. First, just because a book has no contradictions in it does not make it divine. For example, I note no contradictions in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, does that make Harry Potter divinely inspired? Secondly, do we not find contradictions in the Qur’an? There are many examples that could be given, but we’ll just look at a few. First, in sura 7:54 the Qur’an tells us that the heavens and earth were created in 6 days, but in sura 41:9-12 we are told that the heavens and earth were created in 8 days. This is such a blatant contradiction that Qur’anic scholar Yusuf Ali begins his commentary on this problem this way: “This is a difficult passage.”

Second, sura 26:196 says that the Qur’an was in the earlier writings of the prophets. But if the Qur’an was in, say, the Law of Moses then the Qur’an would have also to be in earlier writings before the Torah. If not, then how could the Qur’an have been in the Torah since sura 26:196 wasn’t in the Torah? If it was, then there would have to be earlier writings from the prophets in which the Qur’an was. This goes on ad infinitum.

Lastly, in sura 4:71 the Qur’an implies that Christians believed in three gods, not one God in three persons. Thus since we find many blatent contradictions in the Qur’an it appears that their argument from the unity of the Qur’an is without merit.

Finally, we will now present the strongest types of critiques which can be leveled against the Qur’an: internal critiques. This will make up the vaporization part of our critique of Islam. The Qur’an just so happens to tell us that the Bible (or, Judeo-Christian scriptures) were inspired by Allah. That is, they are revealed truth from Allah. We are told this in many places, for example:

  • 2:136 Say ye: 'We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses, and Jesus, and that given to all prophets from their Lord: WE MAKE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE AND ANOTHER OF THEM.
  • 3:3 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
  • 3:50 And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
  • 3:65 O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?
  • 3:93 All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Taurat was revealed. Say: Bring then the Taurat and read it, if you are truthful.
  • 4:163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
  • 5:44 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers. 5:45 And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
  • 5:46 And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil). 5:47 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. 5:48 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
  • 5:68 Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
  • 10:94 But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.

Therefore we can see that without a doubt the Qur’an tells us that our Christian Scriptures have been revealed by Allah. Supposedly Allah cannot lie and the Qur’an cannot be in error, for if this could be so then we could stop our analysis right here since there would be no warrant to believe any of the suras reported truth. Having seen that the Qur’an claims that Allah has revealed himself in our Bible, let’s turn to our Bible and see what “Allah” says there.

In Deuteronomy 13:1-5 “Allah” tells us that if future revelation contradicts previous revelation, then it has not come from God. Now then, does the Qur’an contradict previous revelation? If it does, then according to the Qur’an’s own terms it cannot be what it claims to be. Let us now examine the Bible and the Qur'an.

The Qur’an contradicts the Bible in many places. For example, we read In sura 28:9 that Moses is adopted by Pharaoh's wife and not by his daughter as is reported in Exodus 2:10. In sura 4:157 we read that Jesus was not crucified, obviously contradicting all four Gospels. In sura 19:35 we read that God would not beget a son which contradict many passages in the Bible (e.g., John 3:16). Sura 11:42-46 tells us that Noah's son drowned in the flood but Genesis 6: 7, 18 tells us that Noah's wife and sons were saved. Abraham was the son of Azar according to the Qur’an in Sura 6:74 and the son of Terah in according to the Bible in Genesis 11:27. And in sura 19:28-35 we read that Marium, sister of Old Testament Aaron, is Jesus’ mother!

One contradiction would have sufficed but I gave a few out of many to make perfectly clear that the Qur’an contradicts previous revelation. Now, remember that Deuteronomy, which was previous revelation from Allah, told us that future revelation cannot contradict previous revelation. So then, according to the Qur’an’s own terms it refutes itself. You see, Muhammad, who started out as the minority, wanted to show commonality with the Jews and Christians. This flaw of his causes the demise of his invented religion.

Having shown these contradictions we can end our analysis and go home now. Our work is over and we’ve shown the Qur’an to be false. Unfortunately it’s not going to be that easy. The Muslim has an out. He can say that since the Qur’an is the ultimate authority then what it reports must be true and the previous revelation has been changed by the infidels (the Jews and Christians) who seek to undermine the final revelation from Allah. Put differently, the Muslim will claim that the Bible we have is not the Bible the Qur’an was talking about. We have a corrupted version of the Bible today. How should we respond to this out the Muslim surely will take?

First, we should note that while it is understandable that Christians would change (or add) passages reporting a crucifixion and Jesus being begotten by the Father, it is not clear why they would change some minor historical formalities such as who Abraham's father was? Or, why would the evil Christians and Jews change that Jacob pledged to serve Laben for 7 years in exchange for Rachel from what the Qur’an reports - that Moses served Jethro for Zipporah? These are most probably due to human error (remember Mohammad grew up in a largely verbal culture and probably only heard verbal accounts of the biblical stories. It is easy to see why he would mistake little details like these rather than it being intentional deceit on the part of Christian cover-up artists. On the other hand, though, our Muslim apologist friend can respond that if someone were smart enough then certainly they would even change minor details. Granted. So now we can only pile more evidences upon the Muslim.

The Bible is the most well attested book of antiquity. For example, Homer's Iliad has about 643 copies (which is the most documented secular work). This pales by comparison to the roughly 5,366 Greek manuscripts. Or, take Plato's works. Dr. Greg Bahnsen, who had to study Plato and textual criticism of his works while obtaining his Ph. D. writes, "Our earliest extant manuscript of a work by Plato dates from right before 900 A.D. ("Oxford B," found in a Patmos monastery by E. B. Clarke), and we must remember that Plato is thought to have written roughly 350 years before Christ -- thus leaving us with a gap of over twelve centuries. By contrast, the earliest fragments of the New Testament date less than fifty years after the original writing; the bulk of our most important extant manuscripts dates from 200-300 years after original composition." The Bible used to be ridiculed for mentioning a tribe of people called the "Hittites." Now, thanks to archeological findings, the Hittites are one of the most well known ancient civilizations. The Bible has, time and time again, been vindicated from the charge of "unreliability." Time Magazine even had to admit that, "After more than two centuries of facing the heaviest scientific guns that could be brought to bear, the Bible has survived -- and is perhaps the better for the siege. Even on the critics' own terms -- historical fact -- the Scriptures seem more acceptable now than they did when the rationalists began the attack."

Lastly, a serious case can be made for the dating of all New Testament documents before 70 A.D., which would make it written well within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. Not only is there serious internal evidence, such as no mention of the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy that he would destroy the temple (which was destroyed in 70 A.D.), even liberal scholar A.T. Robinson points out that the New testament was probably completed before 70 A.D.. Indeed, no less a world renowned textual scholar than Kenyon had to say about the translation and the reliability of our documents:

“The Number of manuscripts of the new testament, or early translations from it, and of quotations from it in the oldest writers of the Church, is so large that it is practically certain that the true reading of every doubtful passage is preserved is some one or the other of these ancient authorities. This can be said of no other ancient book in the world.”

Still, the Muslim can resist this as some vast global conspiracy on the part of deceitful infidels. So are we done? Should we hang up our hats and let the reader decide who has the best evidence? Well, we're not quite done with Islam; let's keep it on the mat for a bit longer. At this point we will now return to our internal critique showing that according to the Qur‘an, the Bible has not been corrupted.

An embarrassing sura for the Muslim is sura 10:94.. In this sura we read: "But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.” What we have here, then, is Muhammad telling people who doubted the veracity of his teachings to ask those who had the book before him (Jews and Christians) if what he was teaching was true. The problem here is that since the texts we have today are substantially the same as the manuscripts circulating in Muhammad's day, we would have Muhammad directing questioners to a corrupted text! If the Bible had been corrupted then why would Muhammad send his followers to verify his teachings from a corrupted text? This sura, then, testifies to an uncorrupted Bible. This is not some isolated text, either. The Qur'an claims "Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realize this not, ask of those who posses the message (sura 21:7)." But those who “possessed the message” back then just happened “to posses” the same “message” that we posses today. There is simply not one shred of evidence testifying that a Bible completely foreign to the Bible we posses today was the Bible used by Christians in Muhammad’s day.

It is also interesting to note that the Qur'an calls the Bible the "Word of God" (sura 2:75). Regarding the word of God being able to be changed, or texts altered, the Qur'an has this to say:

  • "No change can there be in the words of Allah" (sura 10:64).
  • "There is none that can alter the words of Allah" (sura 6:34).

So if we have changed the Bible, or altered it, then it is not true that "No one can change (or alter) the Word of God." Therefore, if we have changed the Bible then the Qur'an is false, and if we have not changed the Bible then the Qur'an is false!

We should also pause and ask why Allah would let mankind go without his other two revelations? If, as Muhammad says, they could be used to verify his message then why would God not allow them to be preserved? Indeed, the “inspired Apostles” (sura 21:7) tell us that all Scripture is profitable for the man of God that he may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim. 3:16-17). Why would Allah let us go without 2/3 of his revelations which are profitable for the follower of God? This has a two-fold effect: (1) Christians who doubt Muhammad cannot verify his message anymore, and (2) followers of God are without 2/3 of God’s revelation to man. Indeed, it seems like a waste of time for God to have revealed the old and new testaments if no one has been able to make use of them for the last 1500 years!

Let us remember where we are. Above I argued that since the Qur’an claims that the Bible had been previously revealed by Allah then the Qur‘an, which is future revelation from Allah, cannot contradict previous revelation, per Allah's own teaching in Deuteronomy 13. I then showed that the Qur'an contradicted the Bible in major and minor ways. I then argued that the Muslim could respond by saying that we had corrupted or changed the texts. From there I argued that some of the changes seem to defy common sense. I argued further that the reliability of the Bible is virtually unquestionable. I then noted that the Muslim could dig his heels into the sand (no pun intended) and remain unconvinced by the historical evidence. From there I went back into an internal critique, pointing out that Muhammad himself referred people who doubted his message to check up on it, as it were, by reading the Bible. At this point I noted that: (1) Muhammad would not tell his followers to look into a corrupted text to verify his teachings, and (2) that the texts in Muhammad’s day are basically the same as ours today (i.e., none of the variants can be shown to change the meaning of the text or Christian dogma.). As I progressed in my internal critique I showed that the Qur’an claims that no one can alter or change the "Word of God" and since the Bible is called the "Word of God" it logically follows that no one can change or alter it. I then put the Muslim on a horns of a dilemma: (1) If no one changed the Bible, then the Qur'an is wrong. (2) If someone changed the Bible then the Qur'an is wrong.

The above conclusion can be achieved by another route as well. Jesus, according to Islam, was a mere prophet (not the Son of God). As a prophet His words are to be believed. A prophet, according to the Bible and the Qur‘an, cannot lie in his prophecies or what he states God has revealed. Now, as was pointed out above, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God but the Qur’an claims that God cannot have a son. So, either Jesus lied (or was wrong) about being God's son, in which case the Qur’an refutes itself, or He did not lie, in which case the Qur’an refutes itself! No matter which angle the Muslim takes, he will be impaled by one of the horns of the dilemma. Stated another way, if the Qur’an is right then it’s wrong and if it’s wrong then it’s wrong, either way it’s wrong.

I will offer one more piercing criticism against Islam. The Christian and Muslim have a different view of the fall. For the Muslim it is a single slip on Adam and Eve’s part, for Christians it destroys the relation between all men and God, since Adam federally represented all mankind. All men are now guilty, like Adam was. Thus Muslim scholar Isma’il R. Al Faruqui notes that “in the Islamic view, [man] is no more ’fallen’ then they are ’saved.’ Because they are not ‘fallen’ they are not ’saved’ either, they need to do good works - and do them ethically - which alone will earn them” entrance to heaven. Therefore we can understand why many Muslim scholars would use sura 30:30 to affirm that “the idea of original sin has no room in the teachings of Islam.” Sin is then do to man’s forgetfulness and weakness. Thus as Muslim scholars note, redemption has no place in Islamic theology. In Islamic theology, if you sin Allah will just forgive you because he is merciful. Thus a combination of Allah’s forgiveness and our works is what grants us admission to paradise. The problem here is that throughout the old testament we read, over an over again, that there can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood (Lev. 17:11; Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Heb. 9:22). This is because God is not just merciful, but he is also holy and just. Leaving aside the problem that this is yet another area where the Qur’an contradicts previous revelation, what do Muslim’s take Allah’s words to mean here? Charles Spurgeon expresses in no uncertain terms what the phrase “without the shedding of blood there is no remission” means:

“And note how decisive this is in its character: "Without shedding of blood there is no remission." "But, sir, can't I get my sins forgiven by my repentance? if I weep, and plead, and pray, will not God forgive me for the sake of my tears?" "No remission," says the text, "without shedding of blood." "But, sir, if I never sin again, and if I serve God more zealously than other men, will he not forgive me for the sake of my obedience?" "No remission," says the text, "without shedding of blood." "But, sir, may I not trust that God is merciful, and will forgive me without the shedding of blood?" "No," says the text, "without shedding of blood there is no remission;" none whatever. It cuts off every other hope. Bring your hopes here, and if they are not based in blood. and stamped with blood, they are as useless as castles in the air, and dreams of the night. "There is no remission," says the text, in positive and plain words; and yet men will be trying to get remission in fifty other ways, until their special pleading becomes as irksome to us as it is useless for them.”

But in Islam there can be remission, not by blood shed but rather by simply asking Allah the merciful one for forgiveness Thus these sins are not punished. So how can Allah remain a just God? These sins are crimes committed in God’s universe. How can crimes go unpunished? Thus there is no ultimate cosmic balance in Islamic thought. If a man rapes and kills 100 women and then becomes a Muslim and asks for forgiveness, God will forgive him. If he is never caught on this earth he will not have any punishment whatsoever. Even if he is caught and punished by men his sin against God is never taken care of. It never receives its just reward. Since Allah is not just then, he can never be counted on to always act righteously. Moses declared that “all God’s ways are just,” but a just God who does not punish crimes is just not a just God. It is impossible to be just without giving justice to the offended party. There is no assurance of salvation (or, attaining heaven) in Islamic theology. If we cannot always count on God to justly punish bad deeds how can we always count on God to reward good deeds? The critique goes further than the almost universal agreement by Muslim’s that we can have no certainty of ‘salvation’ because we might not do enough good works. This critique argues that even if we do the right amount of good works we can still not be certain that we will enter heaven because Allah is not a just God on any standard understanding of justice.

Of course this isn’t a problem for the Christian. In Christian theology God can both be merciful and just. When God forgives us of our sins those sins do not go unpunished. Those sins were laid upon Christ. Furthermore, even though the debt has been paid we still have sinned against God and so were not perfect. This is overcome by the doctrine of the imputation of Christ’s active obedience. That is, God clothes us with the perfect life of Christ and clothes Him with out sin. Thus Christianity is consistent with God’s previous revelation: “Without the shedding of blood there can be no remission.”


  1. 'YAWN' has apparently submitted to the devil god of Islam. Or liberalism/multiculturalism. He is now deep in the influence of the devil's kingdom. A tame slave.

  2. It is worthy to note that, in several of the Koranic verses, Muhammad implies that the Torah (Taurat in Arabic) and the Gospel (Injeel) that were *currently* posessed by Jews and Christians of Muhammad's day were trustworthy (i.e. thus, making the charge that they had been tampered with impossible).

    And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
    -Sura 10:94

    In their history verily there is a lesson for men of understanding. It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe.
    -Sura 12:111

  3. Hi S&S,

    I did make that point above, and coupled it with some other arguments as well.

  4. Those silly Muslims...

    they need a book with better stories, like talking snakes, plants, and donkeys.

    BOO YEAH!!!

  5. "I did make that point above, and coupled it with some other arguments as well."

    Sorry. I must not have read it all the way through.

  6. Perhaps, all the people that don't like Islam or muslims need to sit down and read. And when I say read I mean the normal reading skill which contains the act of reading, the thinking that comes with it, and the more thinking that comes with it.

    What I see is a distorted idea about Islam based of a political view of some sort that was put directly into the ear and eye of the average western man/woman by the strong and able Zionist media machine.

    It is time the west opens it's mind and stop acting like every muslim is hiding behind a shield trying to get them. Quit the mania. Be careful what you start because it might turn bad for you. Hide behind the media and behind Bush. Alas!!! Try to open up and see what muslims really think instead. Try to talk to them instead of freaking just working like slaves and going to night clubs trying to screw around and get drunk and stoned.

    Maybe you should question your own system. First, most Americans for instance don't leave their own little town for the rest of their lives. Second of all most end up another statistic by ending up in jail or on welfare, or pregnant and lost forever. You end up living like beasts in a jungle waiting to be caught or waiting for death to save you which according to muslims and your own teachings won't be pleasant for such people. And finally living under the slavery imposed by the imperialistic, sadistic, sick capitalism. Perhaps for starters you need to free yourselves of this terrible vampire that is sucking your blood through fake wars and enemies (ex. terrorism), monsterous INTEREST, underpaying employees, and the list is very huge...

    Please, as a human who uses her mind, I think you should think about what I wrote. Muslims are your friends. They are fighting this same enemy that I pointed out. They are not fighting you people. To find out the truth why not read or even travel their to see for yourselves.

    Thank you...

  7. Sorry, I don't see how that addressed pretty much anything I wrote.

  8. Paul Manata,
    Good to see you didn't leave the apologetics endeavor all together brother...
    I'm going to have to copy this and read through it slowly I have been of some of your articles...
    God bless your works...
    IN HIM

  9. ***YAWN!!!***


    One cult complaining about another....typical.

  10. Anonymous Muslim, read carefully:

    Jesus saves.

    Muhammad can't do anything for you but lead you to hell.

    Jesus saves.

    Islam is an anti-Christ heresy. When you are against Christ - when you don't accept that He is God come in the flesh - then all you have is death and the devil and hell -- for eternity.

    Jesus saves.

    (Some else to ponder: notice how all the liberals and atheists are against Christians and kind of sort of on your - the Muslim - side? Should tell you something. The devil's followers go by many names. Followers of God go by the name Christian solely.)

  11. Mulims and Christians are both nuts. They both hold on to unprovable propositions that are an unending cause of war and strife.

    Why choose one side or the other? They're both ridiculous.

  12. Anonymous Muslim,

    Would you care to defend the murder of innocent men (for example, Nicholas Berg), women, and children? And don't respond with "the US does the same thing, only with sanctions and bombs". The US is not a Christian nation submitting itself to Scripture. The US is not a follower of Christ, it is a secular nation.

    If someone professing to be a Christian kills, they are sinning and disobeying God's commandment "Thou shalt not kill". When a Muslim kills, he is obeying his unholy book.

    How about defending the degradation of women? Forcing them to cover themselves from head to toe as if God didn't create them with a face? Treating them like second class citizens? Slaves of Muslim men?

    What has Mohammad ever done for you? Has he saved you from your sins? Satisfied the just wrath of God for you in your place?

    Perhaps, all the people that don't like Christianity or Christians need to sit down and read. And when I say read I mean the normal reading skill which contains the act of reading, the thinking that comes with it, and the more thinking that comes with it.

    What I see is a distorted idea about Christianity based of a political view of some sort that was put directly into the ear and eye of the average middle eastern man/woman by the strong and able Islamist media machine.

    It is time the middle east opens it's mind and stop acting like every Christian and Jew is hiding behind a shield trying to get them. Quit the mania. Hide behind the media and behind Ahmadinejad. Alas!!! Try to open up and see what Christians really think instead. Try to talk to them instead of maligning them and harboring hatred toward them because of your ignorance. And stop thinking you're so morally superior when you are subject to the same sinful heart as every other man.

    Maybe you should question your own system. First, most Muslims for instance don't leave their own little town for the rest of their lives. Second of all most end up another statistic by ending up in jail or destitute, or pregnant and lost forever. You end up living like beasts in a jungle waiting to be caught or waiting for death to save you which according to Christians and your own teachings won't be pleasant for such people. And finally living under the slavery imposed by the perverse, sadistic, sick Shariah law. Perhaps for starters you need to free yourselves of this terrible vampire that is sucking your blood through fake wars and enemies (ex. western imperialism), monsterous INTEREST, underpaying employees, and the list is very huge...

    Please, as a human who uses his mind, I think you should think about what I wrote. Christians are your friends. They are fighting against sin and ignorance. They are not fighting you people. To find out the truth why not read or even travel there to see for yourselves.

    Thank you...

  13. hostus twinkius...

    thats cute, Paul. ;)

  14. Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not Paul--really. I think you should probably stop running around thinking that every person who posts under a pseudonym is Paul...

  15. hostus twinkius...

    my drones all sound similar after a while.

    No worries...I'm not currently running around anywhere.

    Or maybe I shouldn't take you literally....its so hard to know...just like with that silly Bible.

  16. hostus wrote:
    I think you should probably stop running around thinking that every person who posts under a pseudonym is Paul...

    Didn't you know? Paul is dead!

  17. On a different note, it's sure enjoyable watching the atheists try to play a moral equivalence card. Since they're kinda lacking moral absolutes and all....

  18. Paul,

    How would you counter the charge that Christianity has a history of violence as well (crusades, inquisitions, etc.) Surely a Muslim apologist would try to put the shoe on the other foot?

  19. Mathetes,

    You addressed Paul, but since I posted above the answer is that the people responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition were not obeying the Bible when they did what they did. They departed from Christ and Scripture. The Muslim, in following his book, is only obeying what it says when he kills a non-Muslim, or even a Muslim of a different sect (e.g Sunnis killing Shiites). Mathetes, Christ said you will know His disciples by their fruit. A good tree produces good fruit, a bad tree produces bad fruit. Do you not see this? How does Islam have any credibility in this world when innocent people are beheaded and such violence and ignorance is spread because of some quotes taken out of context from the Pope, or some harmless cartoons depicting Mohammad? I'll tell you how, this world is in spiritual darkness. And every atheist will be in the same boat as every Christian when these extremist whack-jobs get a hold of a nuclear weopon. So you should be concerned for your own neck as well. Christians obeying Scripture don't behead their enemies, they are commanded to love them and pray for them. Is this not clear also?

  20. Oh, and Redtide, you can take me as literally...

  21. Mathetes,

    Many ways.

    1) I showed how Islam had this history from conception until present day.

    2) I showed how it appears that Islam's jihad passages are standing laws, e.g., "fight them until Allah's religion is supreme." Since the holy war commands in the Bible were not standing laws, I have theological arguments against what some Christians have done.

    3. Then there's an argument on how we define "Christian." Are Catholics "Christain."

    4. Then there's the question of whether the Crusades were even wrong.

    5. All these are points that could be brought up, but the best argument is an exegetical one which argues that though Christians might have done things like that (same with atheists, etc), it can't be shown to be approved by the Bible. The command to crush the cannanites is not the same kind of command which says "do not commit adultary." The latter applies across generations, the former is for the specific generation it was given to. So, Christians may have done some non-Christian things, but the Muslim's *are doing* Islamic things.

    6. Lastly, my point there was not to disprove Islam, I did that in part three. It was just to show that Islam was a menace. So, even granting the Muslim's argument, all he's shown is that we're both menaces.

  22. p.s. and I think if you're honest you'd be bound to agree that if a protestant reverand and a muslim imam got on your plane, you'd be concerned that the muslim might do something.

    So, I think it's prima facie obvious that the muslim is stretching if he comes back with that counter.

    I mean, you gave me *two* examples while I gave you a *sampeling* of probably 20 or so such incidents.

    I mean, there's just no comparison.

  23. Paul,

    I sent this article to my friend at work, who is Syrian and says he's Muslim (he's not really, his religion is of his own making). He says that he read the Hadith for 7 yrs (presumably in school) and he never saw those quotations. He is claiming that either they don't exist or they are mistranslated. Please give sources for those, it would be really helpful.



  24. When truth about them is exposed muslims always claim mistranslation. They're also taught that it is good to lie regarding these matters. They lie like the devil because they follow the devil. (Just as they murder like the devil.) Repent, muslims. Come into the light. Read God's Word, the Holy Bible. Jesus saves. No one else can do what Jesus did. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. He is the King of the Kingdom of God. Every other religion and founder of a religion is a puppet of the devil that keeps you in the devil's kingdom.

  25. Rhology,

    Satan urinating in ears:

    Volume 4, Book 54, Number 492; and

    Volume 2, Book 21, Number 245

    Adam 90 ft tall:

    Volume 4, Book 55, Number 543,

    Stupid women:

    Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301

    Drnk camels urine:

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794,

    Yawning and satan:

    Volume 4, Book 54, Number 509

    Satan staying in the upper part of the nose:

    Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516

    Satan passes gas so he won't hear the call to prayer:

    Volume 2, Book 22, Number 313; Volume 2, Book 22, Number 323

    Anyway, you can check the hadith database for more fun quotes:

    Also, see Dr. Morey's "An Analysis of the Hadiths" for more quotes and references.

  26. btw, Allen, let me know if you need more references or if I can be more specific.

  27. p.s. see this paper by a *muslim* who is a Qur'anic only activist. He uses many of the same hadiths I do (and many more) and gives references:

    and, see this page as well,

    hope that helps

  28. I am glad someone read my comment and copy-cated it lol. The trick is not just saying anything but is to be right on the money.

    I can be stupid too but that is not the virtue of a muslim. Instead I will ask the ignorant who did it to try to open their mind again and not give me and the readers another living example of the sheer ignorance the sample he/she represents really is. Again we already know how narrow minded you are.

    I ask you to please wake up and try to educate yourself instead of making a mockery of your clan on the www.

    Furthermore, the muslims think that people like you are going to hell fire. You say that you are going to heaven. Just please let me know if you are honest and honestly think if you die today you will end up in heaven, just let me and everybody reading this know if you would wish to die just to get there faster. Do you? Now that is called faith in God.

    It is enough pride for muslims that they don't suffer from the religious astigmatism as to where they'd see there God two or three or more. I think you and your likes need to open your minds and study something called logic.

    And all of this talk about muslims being crazy and muslims being blah blah blah is just a sign that you guys with all the strength, might, wealth, and sheer power cannot stop a Book that is more than a thousand years old from getting any older. This is the real problem. You fear justice and hide behind your advanced weapons and your advanced police.

    Now let's not hide our heads in the sand like your type will always do and just simply observe the facts on the ground. If one tenth of the money and effort wasted on trying to spread your humanly fabricated religions such as christianity, if only one tenth of it was spent on Islam, then you won't be writing me forth and back.

    I feel for you and I ask God (in Arabic Allah) to show you the right path. But you need to read. Read about the Islamic history and about the crusades. And if you have any justice in your heart or soul i'm sure you'll see the truth. Seriously!!!

  29. Again, how does that address *any* of the arguments I've made?

    Second, how can you be sure you'll go to heaven? On what basis can you trust that allah will allow you in to heaven?

    Why does the taurat tell us that Allah will not remit sins without the shedding of blood?

    Considering sura 42:11 how can you even know anything abotu Allah?

    I would ask you to ask yourself why you continue to believe in the truth of Islam when you can't even answer the arguments and have to resort to appeals to fear and emotion. Is Allah pleased with fallacious reasoning?

  30. Ok. Then let's be more specific and more logical. Look at today for instance. "Muslims", given have killed three thousand americans in the wtc. Let's see. Three thousand killed one time out of 300 million, the estimated population of the us today. Hmmm!! Simple math gives you a ratio of 1 (ONE) in a HUNDRED THOUSAND which happened only once. That's what Muslims did; given that they actually in every single one of them agrees with the deed.

    On the other hand, let's take israel's deeds for example. In Gaza alone, out of the historical occupied Palestine, the zionist entity slaughters on an average more than three Palestinian civilians a day. Out of a little over a million Palestinians in Gaza!!! Do the math.

    I'm not going to talk about what the us did. We all remember the Japanese victims, the Veitnamees victims and the list is still in progress.

    Compare to Muslims. From the get go, at the time of the Prophet (PBUH), the total of all people killed from both sides, the Muslims and the kuffar was 386 people in total of 7 wars the Muslims had to fight to defend themselves from people who too said Muslims were bad; just like today. The Arabs and Muslims opened Jerusalem three times in the course of history. One time the Arabs opened it before Islam and two times under the Islamic control. In all three times, history hasn't recorded a single blood drop was shed. Come the crusades, and according to their own historians you all know the horrific numbers and the famous story about swimming in blood. In one day over a three hundred thousand Jerusalem's Muslims and Christians were butchered mercilessly on the hands of those terrorists.

    If you were God(Allah in Arabic), who would you put in Heaven and who would you throw to Hell?

    Don't forget that the civilized west just yesterday in historical proportions in Europe in one war well over 40 million people were killed on the hands of those from the same religion and heritage!!!

    Yes I know I'm going to Heaven because I trust in God only not in any one else with him. I am not suffering from the religious astigmatism nor do the Muslims.

    When you finally realize that God is one and alone, you won't be confused about faith. If you trust that God Has no likes then you need to stop saying he has a son, a wife, a daughter, or any kind of a peer.

    God is Peerless. God is Greater.

  31. To those who say america is not christian I ask:

    1. "In god we trust" on the dollar bill. Why is it there?

    2. Why does Bush keep mentioning the crusade?

    3. Howcome since it's a "democracy," that supposedly "elects for the people by the people," howcome a christian elected government is not a christian government?

    4. Also, howcome muslims are the bad apple when muslims have no troops deployed in any country of the world other than there own?

    Now if you still try to market the idea that america is not protestant christian then we're all ears. But I'll take it from a catholic, an argument, though since protestants are not christian in reality. And again read history; your own history ;)

  32. Manata: I don't see how that addressed pretty much anything I wrote

    At least Paul admits it when he's blind to something.

  33. To our anonymous Muslim friend,

    So because the physical nation of Israel has killed Palestinians (and I doubt your numbers, where is the documentation. Saying it's so doesn't make it so), that therefore justifies murdering 3,000 innocent people? This is a sick version of morality.

    You also show your ignorance of history. We used nuclear weopons in Japan because it was going to cost a lot of American blood to invade and defeat the country. Japan was an invading imperial power that raped the Chinese country side (among others), had attacked us unprovoked, and fully intended to continue it's aggression. We got drawn into the Vietnam conflict and it was a mess, but the Viet Cong certainly weren't victims. Maybe you should ask the people who lived under them who the victims were?

    You can lament the crusades all you want, but Christians didn't sanction them--the Catholic Church did. Roman Catholicism is an apostate denomination, so things like the Crusades and the Inquisition don't surprise me.

    You display your ignorance of Christianity when you assert that we worship more than one God. The Lord our God is one, there is only one God. If you prophet was truly inspired by Allah he would have understood this.

    Upon what basis do you think Allah is going to let you into heaven? Because your good deeds outweigh your bad ones? Or because you "trust" in Him, whatever that means. Perhaps you mean because you're so special and you believe that He's going to let you in, then it must be so. Woe unto you when you stand before the Almighty holy one with those thoughts, and no Savior. What will Mohammad do for you then?

    As far as your other allegations, "In God We Trust" is on our dollar bills because we have a Christian heritage. There is Christian influence in society in general, that doesn't make us a Christian nation. A Christian is defined by the Bible, he is one who has repented of his sin and who trusts in Christ alone as his Savior and Redeemer. Our nation is run by secularists who give lip service to Christianity. Also, there are a lot of people who call themselves Christian in this country who know nothing of Christ. If you knew anything about Christianity and this country you would know this.

    I don't agree with what's going on in Iraq, I think it was a mistake from the beginning, but our troops are there to win a conflict--not murder innocent people like Nicholas Berg and many others (see the questions I asked in a previous comment--questions you never answered)

    If you think protestants aren't really Christians there is no reasoning with you. Your ignorance is insurmountable if you hold to such an assertion. Christians are defined as followers of Christ, not the Roman Catholic Church. If you think Christianity is the same as Roman Catholicism, you're in darkness and have proven you have never studied the Scriptures. The Qu'ran sanctions the killing of infidels, the Bible commands prayer for our enemies. Is not the difference clear?

    How can Allah be just and allow you or any other sinner into His heaven? Is He not holy and pure and eternal? Do you think you're righteous? Do you not think sin is all that serious? Then you don't think very highly of the Creator and Sustainer of all things do you? You see, for all of your hatred of the Catholic Church, you're religious system is much the same--you earn your way to heaven by doing a fews things--give to the poor, pray 5 times a day toward Mecca, pilgrimage, etc. You have no solid ground to stand on when you assert that Allah is pleased with you and has a spot in heaven just waiting for you.

    I exhort you as a friend to seriously consider the claims of Christ and the God revealed in Scripture. Allah will open your heart and your understanding if you will humble yourself and call upon His name through His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. May it be so and may all the praise be unto His Name!

  34. Mulsim Anonymous,

    What you're doing doesn't address my *arguments.* You seem to think that I'm some cookie cutter American. You see, I gave arguments against the truthfulness of the Qur'an. Therefore, even if what you're saying about America is correct, it doesn't relieve the problems I raised for Islam. Thus, as I said, you're not addressing anything.

    You seem to think I'm some premillennialist who's infatuated with Israel. I appreciate Israel simply for strategic reasons. We wouldn't want a unified arab state, the reinstatement of the caliph, and then the quest for world submission to Allah via the sword. Other than that, theologically the Jews were the whore bride and Jehovah divorced them. They are not His "chosen people." They are just as alienated and guilty before the Father as are you, the hindus, etc.

    Lastly, I asked you how you could be sure you're going to heaven and you said,

    "Yes I know I'm going to Heaven because I trust in God only not in any one else with him. I am not suffering from the religious astigmatism nor do the Muslims.

    How can you place retsraints upon Allah this way? Does allah *have* to let you in to heaven just because you trust him? Why?

    Again, 'Allah' says in the taurat that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Are you saying he lied?

    How can Allah be *just* and not punish your sin? Am just god *must* punish sin. If Allah is not *just* than you can't count on him to always do what is right. If you can't can't on Allah to always do what is right then you can't count on him letting you in to heaven just because you "trust" in him.

    As I said in my paper, God say that His eyes are to perfect to look upon sin. He is so holy that he cannot dwell with the sinful. Furthermore, God is just and he must punish sin. Only the Christian worldview, with it's active and passive obedience of the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, can secure salvation. Why? Without the shedding of blood there is no remission and without the righteousness of Jesus Christ, the shoot from Jesse's root, imputed to us there is no positive holiness on our end.

  35. So, Swedenborg wrote the following of Islam. He believed that Islam was of Divine Providence, thus of God. And he also believed that God and Jesus were one, like Soul and Body. So, Swedenborg is really saying that Jesus raised up Islam to destroy idolatry in that part of the world. This is a link that is sorely needed in this age.

    From his work Divine Love and Wisdom, No. 255:

    [1] The merely wordly man confirms himself against the Divine Providence when he sees that Islam (the religion) is accepted by so many empires and kingdoms. That this form of religion is accepted by more kingdoms than the Christian religion may be a stumbling-block to those who think about the Divine Providence, and who at the same time believe that no one can be saved unless he has been born a Christian, thus where the Word is by which the Lord is known.

    But Islam is not a stumbling-block to those who believe that all things are of the Divine Providence. They inquire how such a thing can be, and they find the answer in this, that Islam acknowledges the Lord as the Son of God, the wisest of men and a very great prophet who came into the world to teach men; and most Muslims consider the Lord to be greater than Mohammed.

    [2] To make it fully understood that this form of religion was raised up by the Divine Providence of the Lord to destroy the idolatries of many nations, it will be set forth in an orderly account beginning with some observations on the origin of idolatries.

    Previous to the religion of Mohammed, the worship of idols was common throughout the whole world. This was because the Churches before Christ's birth were all representative Churches. Such was the Israelitish Church. In it the tabernacle, the garments of Aaron, the sacrifices, all things belonging to the temple at Jerusalem, and also the statutes, were representative.

    Moreover, among the Ancients [prior to the Israelites, and concurrent with it and to this day in native religions] there was the science of correspondences, which is also the science of representatives, the science of the wise. This was especially cultivated in Egypt, and is the source of the Egyptian hieroglyphics. From this science they knew the signification of animals of every kind, also the signification of trees of every kind, and of mountains, hills, rivers and fountains, and also of the sun, moon and stars; and as all their worship was representative, consisting wholly of correspondences, they celebrated it on mountains and hills, and also in groves and gardens.

    For the same reason they also regarded fountains as holy, and in their adoration of God they turned their faces to the rising sun. Moreover, they made graven images of horses, oxen, calves, lambs and also of birds, fishes and serpents, and set them up in their houses and other places in an order according to the spiritual things of the Church to which they corresponded or which they represented. They also placed similar objects in their temples that they might bring to remembrance the holy things which they signified.

    [3] In the course of time, when the science of correspondences had been lost, their posterity began to worship the graven images themselves, as being holy in themselves, not knowing that their forefathers had seen no holiness in those things, but only that they represented and consequently signified holy things according to correspondences. Hence arose the idolatries which filled the whole world, Asia with its neighbouring islands, as well as Africa and Europe.

    In order that all these idolatries might be rooted out it was brought about by the Divine Providence of the Lord that a new religion should arise, adapted to the genius of those in the Mid-East and Far-East, in which there should be something from both Testaments of the Word and which should teach that the Lord came into the world, and that He was a very great prophet, the wisest of all men, and the Son of God. This was effected by means of Mohammed, and the religion is now called the Muslim religion or Islam.

    [4] By the Divine Providence of the Lord this religion was raised up and adapted to the genius of these people, as was just stated, to the end that it might destroy the idolatries practised by so many nations and give the people some knowledge concerning the Lord before they entered the spiritual world. This religion would not have been received by so many kingdoms with power to extirpate idolatries if it had not been suited and adapted to the ideas of thought and life of them all.

    It did not acknowledge the Lord as God of heaven and earth because the peoples of the Mid-East and Far-East acknowledged God as the Creator of the universe, but they could not comprehend that He came into the world and assumed the Human, even as Christians do not comprehend this, who consequently in their thought separate His Divine from His Human, and place the Divine near the Father in heaven and His Human they know not where.

    [5] Hence it may be seen that Islam also arose from the Divine Providence of the Lord; and that all persons of that religion who acknowledge the Lord as the Son of God and at the same time live according to the precepts of the Decalogue, which they also have, by shunning evils as sins, come into a heaven called the Muslim heaven. This heaven is also divided into three, the highest, middle and lowest. In the highest heaven are those who acknowledge the Lord to be one with the Father, and thus to be Himself the only God; in the second heaven are those who renounce a plurality of wives and live with one; and in the lowest are those who are being initiated.

  36. "So, Swedenborg wrote the following of Islam. He believed that Islam was of Divine Providence, thus of God. And he also believed that God and Jesus were one, like Soul and Body. So, Swedenborg is really saying that Jesus raised up Islam to destroy idolatry in that part of the world. This is a link that is sorely needed in this age."

    So Swedenborg contradicted himself?

    Jesus raised up Islam to destroy Idolatry in that pert of the world, but Allah worship is Idolatry, so Jesus wanted to destroy idolatry by establishing idolatry???

    Furthermore, everything happens by God's providence. God ordains all events. So, yes, Islam was planned by the Christian God.

    His views on the trinity are heretical. Body is not soul and sould is not body. They are not identical. But, the second person of the trinity is fully God and the Father is fully God.

  37. p.s. thanks for some dudes unsubstantiated assertions.

  38. 1. Swedenborg never said Allah worship was idolatrous. Allah is God Jehovah. The Father. A golden calf is an idol.

    2. In Swedenborg's theology God does not pre-ordain anything. People make choices out of free will. Choices beget options. People make further choices. Etc. Permission is a key tenet of his theology. Without permission, freedom would not exist. Additionally, Swedenborg states that God is continually working to provide choices that will bring people into a state of good (or lesser evil). But people still choose. So, yes, because of idolatry, and because of choices, Islam was able to be raised up.

    3. Swedenborg's theology is of a unitary God. The whole Father, Son, Holy Spirit thing was allegorical to suit the minds of the day. Further misunderstanding by the early Christian church cemented the notion of three gods within a god-head.

    "I and my Father are one." "He who has seen me has seen the Father." In Swedenborg's theology, this is not "one" like George Bush and Dick Cheney are "one", that is of "one" mind. In his theology, they are one like soul and body make up a person. Swedenborg goes one further and says that the Holy Spirit is one with the others like a person's visible actions are one with the person. So, he is not saying soul=body. That is ludicrous. He is saying YOU are simply a soul, a physical body (which includes your mind), and your actions. YOU are nothing else. But that is everything. And God is no different. That is his theology.

    Further, one person's heretic is another's theologian. Roman Catholic positions on vicarious atonement or marian assumption are heretical to Swedenborgian theology.

    Finally, what's unsubstantiated? Swedenborg's theology? I cited the citation correctly. If you say that Swedenborg's theories are unsubstantiated, then let's talk about the evolving doctrine of Mary. All ex-biblical. Shifting dramatically over time. How is that substantiated?

    Again, one person's substantiation is another's unsubstantiation.

  39. 1. If Christianity is true then Islam and Allah worship are false. Thus according to the Christian worldview, you'd have Jesus setting up idolitry to defeat idolatry. So, the claim begged the question against Christian theology.

    2. I thought you said Islam's set up was part of God's providence? Apparently Swedenborg's god is importent.

    3. Again, I don't care about hsi unsubstantiated opinion. Where's his revelation? Did "god" tell him these things about his own nature?

    4. I already refuted your body soul analogy. Those two are *not identical.* So, if Jesus is body and Father is soul, then the two are not *identical* and so if *both* are God then it appears that Swedenborg was a *polytheist.*

    5. What's unsubstantiated are Swedenborg's theological *opinions.* I mean, I really don't care what he *thinks* about God. Show me his revelation, then we can have something to work with.

  40. People should also know that Swedenborg claims to have met Plato and Augustine in "the spirit world." Possibly this is where he got his info from?

  41. excuse me, in #2 above I met Swedenborg's god was *impotent,* not impoRtant.

  42. Apparently Swedenborg heard some voice3s and met some people in the spirit world. This is where he gets his info from.

    Well, I have people who claim to have heard from God who contradict swedenborg. So, what standard do we use to determine who is correct?

    Indeed, how does swedenborg know that it was God and not the devil who was talking to him?

    Speaking with the dead, as swedenborg did, was forbidden by Jehovah. Swedenborg claims to be in the line of descent from Jehovah. Apparently someone forgot to tell swedenborg that he's contradicting Jehovah.

    Swedenborg denied sola fide and taught a works based salvation. Thus he had a low doctrine of sin. Indeed, his religion looked nothing like the God of the Bible.

    So, swedenborg was just another heretic who claimed the God of the Bible talked to him, and in doing so contradicted his previous revelation. Swedenborgianism requires us to believe in a god who doesn't ordain anything, allows men to go to heaven by their works, and modalism is his doctrine of god. But this contradicts the bible and so swedenborgs god, if true, is false.

  43. Good exchange!

    Swedenborg claims to have been revealed to directly by The Lord God Jesus Christ.

    He claims his revelation is similar to that of all those revealed to in the Bible and for other religions down through history. He mentions a book of the Ancients of Greater Tartary as a previous Divine revelation.

    His God is not multiple -- the opposite -- he is the ultimate monotheist. That is clear from his writings.

    His God is omnipotent, but cannot act contrary to His will. That is, God cannot do evil. And God cannot take away our spiritual freedoms since His will is to provide us with spiritual freedom to choose to love Him or choose to love ourselves. Taking that away compels us to love Him, or leaves us out in the cold no matter what(Calvanism) -- not a spiritual worldview that I want to be a part of.

    Swedenborg claims that The Lord revealed the solution to this as the Doctrine of Permission. God doesn't deny us the choice of evil, if that is what we want. He permits us to turn away from Him if we so desire. Otherwise we are automatons with no free will of our own - machines really.

    Swedenborg taught that the doctrine of faith alone is what has spiritually destroyed the Christian churches. He teaches that you can NOT win Heaven on merit - on that we agree. But he also teaches that you will NOT be a Heavenly person unless you do good as of yourself, knowing that it is the Lord who is able to do good through you. (He also taught that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins, but rather defeated the Hells by not succumbing to temptation, thereby reordering the balance of good and evil flowing into this world and enabling humans to continue to freely choose the life of Heaven.)

    He teaches that sin is loving oneself more than anything. And the opposite of sin is loving the Lord above all else and loving the neighbor as oneself. These are the two great commandments of the Bible and the basis for the Ten Commandments. So, sinning is breaking the commandments.

    Shunning evils as sins is the way to Heaven. Actually, Swedenborg doesn't lean on the word "salvation" as he has a complex view of end-state determination. Unlike Calvanism, there is only a universal "predestination" to Heaven, that is, the Lord wills all to choose a life of Heavenly happiness, and has created us for Heaven. But many do not choose that. And as a result, must be separated from those who do -- Hell.

    According to Swedenborg's revelation, God cannot "save" a person who has chosen a life of sin. In fact, God does one better. He permits sinners to live their loves in Hell. There, these people can engage in their self love to their hearts content, as long as they do not harm another. Since this is their unwavering wish, they are restrained from doing so, and thus the Hell of Hell.

    This is precisely the theology of the Bible, though. What Christians have wrought through the ages is not Christian nor Biblical.

    Back to Islam, as a Calvanist, you can only take 144,000 to Heaven. So, the questions re: Islam are moot -- they are all going to Hell in your Christianity anyway, regardless of whether they were raised up of Divine Providence or not. As well, 99.99999999% of all Christians are headed for eternal Hell fire. And 99.99999% of all Calvanists are headed for Hell Fire.

    This is not my kind of God! Create people -- billions and billions of them -- so that He can burn them in eternal Hell fire. And your theology had to create Satan? Why the need? Your God was taking care of that already!

    Swedenborg's theology -- claimed to be revealed by God -- is the opposite of that. Swedenborg teaches of a Heaven and a Hell that only a God of Pure Love could create. Supported by free will, God created a way where angelic people can be truly happy in Heavenly joy, and a way for evil people to be as happy as they can be, given their loves, in Hell.

  44. Paul, you have this thing, where you're like a magnent for theological weirdos...
    God bless you brother

  45. Mr. Li, sir, I can only say, that Mr. Swedenborg would likely think the same of you.

    To a Protestant, the Roman Catholics and the Pope are the ultimate wierdos. To a Mormon, a Calvanist is as wierd as they come. To a Hindu, all of these followers know nothing and are therefore theologically wierd.

    As I understood the rules of engagement, and I clearly have understood them incorrectly, this was to have been a discussion.

    Clearly, this site is for people of one mind and one perspective -- and a wierd one at that.

    Don't worry, I won't post again. I know when you are not interested in the dialogue.

  46. Swedenborg dude,

    I responded to you here here.

  47. Hi all,

    I'm sorry I am not being clear some times. To those who ask me to answer their questions I first say that the christian I mean in my comments are the zionists. The real christians as we all know won't even want to look at a gun.

    Those who came to colonize the world used a shape that looks like today's cross. Don't you agree?

    To the regular person this might seem like christians did it when in fact it was the freemasons known back then as the knights templar.

    Now to answer some of the questions and forgive my memory. The questions are too many.

    I don't say I am going to heaven immidiately as a muslim or as anyone else. But as a muslim I believe that not only muslims are going to heaven but also tell you ascribers (people who call companions with God [APBH]) will never even smell it. Allah or God in Islam is merciful. He tells us in the holy books especially in the Holy Quran that he forgives all sins except ascribing to Him [APBH].

    If I have sins, and I do, only God can question me and therefore He only knows if I will go to heaven or not. But in the Holy Quran and even the tampered-with bible He promises those who don't ascribe mercy and Heavens.

    To those who asked about the Hadith and the Holy Quran or question them let's see the facts. Historians cannot even authenticate the existance of Prophet Jesus [GPUH] and let's be objective about it. While Prophet Muhammed's [PBUH] history and life story is known in great detail. You might say oh Jesus [PBUH] had no father while Muhammed [PBUH] had a father then who's Jesus's [PBUH] father? Then I would ask you with an open mind and screaming logic and who is Adam's [PBUH] father or even mother for that matter? Verily they both and all the rest of us are just humans amongst the creation of the One and Only; God who is in your own words Incomparable. Another fact says that the Holy Quran anywhere on the face of the planet is identical one copy to the other. No need to mention the story of the to-day bible as we all know it well. How many books are they now?!

    Now back to those who still insist that america is not christian in it's politics. Are you trying to tell me and the readers that iron is made of wood?! It is nature of things that you won't get oil out of a cup full of water!!! Bush said "crusade!!!"

    You ask what Muhammed [PBUH] gave me? Muhammed [PBUH] died. He was, like Jesus [PBUH], only human. They both died and they both did not give us anything. Show me any evidence they [PBUT] did. Instead they and their heritage were given to us by God (Allah) [TWT] as a mercy and as a warning before we face the day of judgement. They both [PBUT] were muslims (ie. surrenderers to God) and both [PBUT] ordered us to do nothing but worship God our and their Creator and not worship one another (ex. worshipping Jesus)!!!

    Don't tell me the bible said. Talk to my brain. How can God [TWT] ever be human??? How can someone very weak harm God???!!!

    Finally, please go read and get educated without parking your brains and hearts outside. Use logic. It helps :)

  48. Anonymous Muslim,

    Your logic is twisted. You are ignorant of the Bible and apparently only listen to your Muslim apologists (who don't understand it either). God sent His only begotten Son into the world to take upon Himself flesh, to live a perfectly holy and sinless life--as well as to reveal the true and living God by proclaiming Him in Word and deed. Then He was rejected of men and died on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of His people. Our God is just and doesn't wink at sin. He must punish every sinner for his sins, and without a sinless sacrifice no sin will be atoned for or forgotten by God. Your God is not just, He allows sinners into His heaven still carrying their sins--no justice, no holiness, but our God cannot look upon sin and no unatoned sinner will be in His heaven. Jesus is God and Man, He is the God-Man. How better for God to speak to us and reveal Himself to us than by Him coming to us and speaking face to face, as it were? You still have not answered any of Paul Manata's argumentation, and yet you want to exhort us to use logic. Where is your logical argumentation refuting what he said? You've provided none, and you've shown your own ignorance of the topics you have brought up. You really need to read and study before you attempt to refute something you don't understand. Otherwise we're just spinning our wheels here. I've heard the same emotive talk from other Muslims, same old ignorant arguments regurgitated. So, please, read conservative Biblical scholarship, not just your bias Mulsim apologists. A good place to start is by listening to James White's debate with Muslim apologist Shabir Ally, you can download it from his web site, Well, I'm done here. May God be merciful to you and may He open your eyes to see your need of a Savior--King Jesus...

  49. How is it logical that God leaves the whole universe without a ruler and comes down on a tiny planet that might not count in His eyes or is, with all it's contents, more tiny than ant to us just to let a bunch of crooks kick him around and humiliate him, and at the end murder him?

    What mercy is in that for us? How did such illogical sequence of fictional events clean our sins? Such stuff can only be found in cartoons. Humanity needs a more convincing story. If this story was true, then why nothing has changed? What in humanity's or earth's norm has changed? Tell me facts.

    Islam says there is this One God who send reminders to all of humanity in different forms and shapes. It says that who wants salvation needs to work for it added to believing in God. Simply like work; you don't work you'll end up in a bad shape and might even starve and die. Or when you go to school if you don't study you'll never pass. God has set these rules and He is the first One to respect them and enforce them. Not all the jesuses or muhammeds in the world can save you. They were the guide in the darkness to take us to God but they never were and never will be God.

    More logic? Ok :)

    If jesus was god and the salvation then what about the people before jesus? Who saved them? If what you say was true then who is moses? Was moses wrong then? Why were there jews in this case? If God's plan for us was to be one nation and believe the same thing then why are we different?If there was only one way for salvation then why is it only a bunch of drunks get it?! What about the other nations?

    Why is it when you're in trouble you pray to God and when He helps you and you feel safe you quickly claim it was a dead human; jesus??!!!

    Indeed we worship different gods. We worship the One and Only; the God, the Creator of everything known and unknown. But you, alas, you worship a dead man!!!

  50. Anon. Muslim,

    Your own words condemn you. You still haven't answered any of the argumentation and cannot even show that your God is just. You're a self-righteous religionist who thinks God will accept you because you learned His "rules". You're as bad as a Roman Catholic. You think Allah is pleased with your religious observances while your heart if full of sin? Your false god will perish with you, unless you repent...

  51. That last comment should have been worded, "you will perish with your false god, unless you repent"...

  52. Give me logic please. I think I answered all the questions. Ask me again if you don't mind.

    And dead and perish and all these should be backed with evidence. I tell you the evidence that the muslim story is a right one is that there are many messengers that came before Jesus [PBUH]. Why aren't the jews worshipping Jesus [PBUH]? Why is the cross something that Jesus [PBUH] himself did not even make mention of. You know that a king in Europe created the cross well after Jesus's [PBUH] death-which was not on the cross by the way?

    What is your evidence that the son of mary was or still is God. How can God[TWT] ever be born? or killed?? How very unjust and degrading to the Almighty!!!!

  53. Thank you for your time and effort. I am afraid once again I need to stress the reading part. You need to read the muslim interpritations of all these Suras. Because you must agree that anything taken out of context could mean just about anything just like:

    “Drink ye all of it, for this is my blood of the new covenant; poured out for many, for the forgiveness of sins” [Matt. 26:27].

    Then we should interpret this verse as jesus promoting drunkard and drunk driving if we will take it the way you quoted the Holy Quran.

    I started randomly with a good verse though. Would God order people to lose their minds and get drunk? If wine was god's blood then we should worship grapes. Wait then we're drinking god's blood too! Does that make wine drinkers vampires? Wow I already like this religion. What in God's name are you guys promoting?! What are you telling us? Salvation goes through getting drunk?! Salvation goes through drinking god's blood?!

    I would like to tell you that that verse from the Holy Quran was directed to Prphet Muhammed directly and only to him and it does not direct him to what you were wishing for which you spilled on this page. Instead he was told to go to test his data which he recieved from God against their's, and this might surprize you, the difference is what he was looking for here not an agreement. But what was more surprizing was that they came to the Prophet [PBUH] for guidance and to test him sometimes.

    I do not have enough time to go through every point you think you made but I will tell you this. I will respond little by little every day.

    Until tomorrow just remember that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Remember that Muhammed is the most popular name on earth. Remember that Islam is the most faught and agressed against religion on earth. And remember that Allah [TWT] promised that His chosen religion (Islam) will enter every house and reach every corner in the planet by means of those who support it and those who don't and it'd happening ;)

  54. my response to the above:

  55. christianity says that if someone slaps you turn the other cheek.

    Howcome you guys are slapping back?

    Yet another logical flaw in your fake religion ;)

  56. Who is God? Who is jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit? How many gods do you worship? How did "god" allow the jews to torture and kill "him"? Who brought "god" back to life after "he" died? When "god was dead for a couple of days" who governed all of this we see around us and took care of all of the universe? Who ruled the universe when "god" was busy trying to convince the jews on earth? Howcome the ones "he" came to convince and save were the main ones who did not listen to "him"? If "god" was at a point human doesn't that make us equal?! If God is not bound by anything (ex. a time and a place, etc...) like Islam says then how does Christianity bound "god" by a time, a place, and even a level of strenght/power?! If jesus was "god" and the salvation then what happens to the people from Adam until jesus's time (who saved those guys)? If jesus came to wipe out our sins then why do you go to church, pay for charity, feed the poor, fast, pray, or even make mension of "him" (for everything was taken care of by "him") or why even preache to me?! If jesus came to wipe out our sins then why is there still killing, stealing, fornicating, adultring, wars, famins, etc...? Did jesus go to the bathroom, get sick, sleep, get hungry, walk in the markets and roam the streets, etc...? Aren't these the characteristics of a human?!

    LOGICAL answers please ;)

  57. I urge you to not quote any book or reference on earth and to speak mind to mind instead. Don't push yourselves into the corner you cannot handle which is quoting
    books. If your house is of glass don't throw rocks at people.

    I haven't quoted the Holy Quran and haven't quoted the many currupted alleged scriptures you have and if I start doing that it won't be a pleasant seen. You all have read the sample I ran into in Matt. 26:27 randomly which I used earlier. And yes we can infer that drunk driving is included here in that, wanna be, verse since movement is a function of a human being and part of it is driving. You don't suggest that a drunk would turn into a still object until the effect is gone! Would you?! Or maybe that's how you justify drinking to begin with!!!

    Now let's talk logic and brain to brain. I challange all the chritians here and all over the world to come up with answers that can fit in brains and in hearts. I want answers that are logical and clear. Try to use your head not what your pope(s) wrote with his own hands in order to sit on an endless treaure which can feed the whole world 70 times if shared and in order to enjoy more money and givings from blinded people from all over the world just so he can sit on a thrown not even the worst monarchs and dictators on the face of earth can ever afford. And what's in hiding is even worse. Wake up people.

    Your religion is a wealth generating machine for such crooks who lead you by the necks blind foldedly to your inescapable fate. You feel it. You know it.

    But that's besides the point :)

    Answer this (I am looking for logic here remember):

    Who is the christian god?
    1. The Creator (ie TheGod of all).
    2. Jesus.
    3. The holy spirit.

    I challange the whole christian world to answer this question ;)

    Until you do answer **it won't ever happen lol** remember that:

    Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Remember that Muhammed is the most popular name on earth. Remember that Islam is the most faught and agressed against religion on earth. And remember that Allah [TWT] promised that His chosen religion (Islam) will enter every house and reach every corner in the planet by means of those who support it and those who don't and it's happening ;)

    And that's what makes you attack Islam...

    ps. It doesn't matter how it's growing .. hehe .. the fact remains it's growing faster. And in Africa we all know what the white anglosaxon christian did
    to locals so let's not go there. But it's not true that Islam is passing away in Africa. If you mean under the guns of the French and the English then we agree and point is made in favor of Islam :)

  58. The Holy Quran explains itself in any language because it is the Word of God who created all languages. And it is a word which God [TWT] protected from weaknesses in men's hearts unlike the others. No muslim would even dare change a letter in the Holy Quran for they won't succeed niether will they be able to live with the guilt and it will be caught. There were attempts by enemies of Islam to circulate a tampered-with version of the Holy Quran and irony has it that most attempts were discovered and stopped by blind men who knew the Holy Quran by heart. It is the work of God. He said in the Holy Quran that He has revealed it and that He will protect it.

    Oh indeed I explained what that Holy Verse from the Holy Quran refers to and I even directed you to the right source that will clarify any confusion regards the Holy Verse. Read what I said carefully please. But once again you prove that you just want to follow blindly without using your mind or heart. A muslim knows all about it and you will never be able to shift them away from the meaning of the Holy Verse at hand or any other Holy Verse.

    Indeed you try to twist the meaning of the Holy Verse as to where it looks like we should follow you. "Ask" is not "follow"!!! If the reader has any logic they would automatically think that it is impossible that someone tells you to do something and tells you to do the opposite, and at the same time!!! I asked you to use logic and not belittle the minds of the readers. Allah (theGod in Arabic) orders us to worship Him only and not to ascribe to Him [TWT]. We muslims say: There is no god but God, and Muhammed is the messenger of God. How do you want the reader to think that a Quran that says only that and nothing else but that would tell us to go follow the opposite to that? Where's the logic here? The flaw is in your interpritation itself which is deliberate. Islam is a complete system. You take anything out of context and it would be just any other words said by just anyone. That's part of the Quran's perfectness.

    On the other hand you guys say: there are many gods it depends on the mood, can be jesus or god or jehovah or the holy spirit or all of them or half of them or non of them (ie. mother nature) or the sun or the moon or mars or the dollar, etc...!!!!!!!!!!!

    What God [TWT] meant in this Holy Verse is something you can find everywhere in the Muslim literature and in the books of Tafsir (ie. translation or clarification of the Holy Quran). I urge you to go look it up and this should be a great start and a beginning for forming the right opinion about Islam and its teachings.

    Now the way I see it is, you are trying to drag the argument over this point in order to avoid the logic in what I said previously eventhough this is the second time I provide an answer. I have many questions for you that are not as lenghthy as the ones you provided for me and are less boring to the reader from a detail point of view. Add to that they are logical and to the point. And they don't require anyone to open any books or dig in references. They just require an open mind and a clean one; might I add :)

    I mean why get into detail when the title of the book is so clear; both books I might add ;)

    Who is God? Who is jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit? How many gods do you worship? How did "god" allow the jews to torture and kill "him"? Who brought "god" back to life after "he" died? When "god was dead for a couple of days" who governed all of this we see around us and took care of all of the universe? Who ruled the universe when "god" was busy trying to convince the jews on earth? Howcome the ones "he" came to convince and save were the main ones who did not listen to "him"? If "god" was at a point human doesn't that make us equal?! If God is not bound by anything (ex. a time and a place, etc...) like Islam says then how does Christianity bound "god" by a time, a place, and even a level of strenght/power?! If jesus was "god" and the salvation then what happens to the people from Adam until jesus's time (who saved those guys)? If jesus came to wipe out our sins then why do you go to church, pay for charity, feed the poor, fast, pray, or even make mension of "him" (for everything was taken care of by "him") or why even preache to me?! If jesus came to wipe out our sins then why is there still killing, stealing, fornicating, adultring, wars, famins, etc...? Did jesus go to the bathroom, get sick, sleep, get hungry, walk in the markets and roam the streets, etc...? Aren't these the characteristics of a human?!

    And the lists go on :)

    I challange anyone to answer these questions logically. If you can't answer them logically and you CANNOT possibly answer them with logic then fear the God of all; the God of Muhammed [PBUH], the God of Jesus [PBUH], theGod (ie. Allah) the Creator. The God who promised terrible torture for your likes in the hereafter. Remember that you worship a dead man and that God never dies ;)

    Until tomorrow just remember that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Remember that Muhammed is the most popular name on earth. Remember that Islam is the most faught and agressed against religion on earth. And remember that Allah [TWT] promised that His chosen religion (Islam) will enter every house and reach every corner in the planet by means of those who support it and those who don't and it's happening ;)

    And that's what makes you attack Islam...

  59. To my dear brothers and sisters in humanity all over the world who are reading these words. I invite you as a surrenderer to God to embrace Islam (Submission or Surrendering). If you do God will reword you twice the reward and He can increase it by doubles to those whome He so chooses. If you don't then be my witnesses that I have, as one of the Muslems, convieghed to you the message the Prophet of God has recieved from God as mercy for all people and as a light and a guide to shield from the woes of a terrible day when money and children won't save a wrong man or woman. If you refuse and reject then you only harm yourselves and God does not rely on or need you to feed, shelter or help Him; all praise be to Him [PBTH]. And God is Greater and is Most Merciful. And Allah [TWT] theGod does not wrong people. It is what we do that will decide our fate along with coming to God with a clean and clear heart.

    Embrace Islam and you will become as clean from any sin or bad deed you committed as you were the day you were born.

  60. Hi, Paul Manata, I'm not sure if you're reading posts on this article any more, but I would like to ask what denomination of Christianity you belong to. I found that I agree with your entire article as well as all of your rebuttal comments, and I’m wondering if maybe I need to switch to the same faith that you have. Right now I’m a member of a Southern Baptist church, though I do not agree with all of the Southern Baptist views; for instance, I do not religiously support Israel’s war against the Palestinians (I believe that they blew their chance back in the OT), but I agree with you that their being there is of practical use.

  61. Oh yeah... don't let the unsaved commenters be a drain upon you. Keep up the Good Lord's work, brother.