The Power of Luv

Mother Love interviews Steve Hays at the Namgyal Monastery in Ithaca, New York on his new book, The Loverly Lovesomeness of Love.

ML: Steve, I read in the London Times Review of your new book that you used to be a Calvinist.

SH: I'm ashamed to say that's true.

ML: What exactly is a Calvinist?

SH: A Calvinist is a Christian who thinks that God knew what he was doing before he did it.

ML: You mean to tell me that there are so-called Christians who still believe that?

SH: Yes, in certain pockets of flyover country.

Of course, most Christians think that God was making things up as he went along -- kind of like a cosmic Barney Fife.

ML: So when did you change your mind?

SH: I was in a used bookstore, looking for a copy of Hoeksema's The Curse-Reward of the Wicked Well-Doer for my grandson's fifth birthday when I stumbled across a dusty edition of Leo Buscaglia's The Fall of Freddie the Leaf.

ML: What happened next?

SH: Well, out of sheer curiosity, I began to read, and I couldn't put the book down. I read it from cover to cover, right there in the book store.

ML: Then what?

SH: It was an epiphany. The scales fell from my eyes. I walked out of that store a new man.

ML: What do you mean?

SH: Well, back when I was a Calvinist, the world was like a B&W TV set. All sour and dour.

But now, for the first time in my life, I began to notice the daisies and butterflies.

ML: So you now believe in the power of love?

SH: Yes, that's right.

ML: What springs to mind when you hear the word "love"?

SH: I think of Bambi and Barry Manilow and The Sound of Music. I think of kittens and puppies and bunny-rabbits.

ML: As a Calvinist, did you believe in hell?

SH: Oh, yes! I thought that only Christians were going to heaven.

ML: But you don't believe that any more, do you? You're an ecumenist.

SH: I now know that God is all and all is God.

ML: What about cannibals?

SH: There's a lot of bigotry direct at cannibals. Almost as bad as the hate-speech about headhunters. But we need to cut through the prejudicial stereotypes and learn to distinguish between loving and unloving cannibalism.

ML: How do you define loving cannibalism?

SH: Using a general anesthetic before you stick the fork in. I suppose a local anesthetic would do for a snack.

ML: But what if the victim resents being eaten alive?

SH: That's such an unloving reaction. That's the sort of selfish attitude which feeds the cycle of violence. And that's why the Dalai Lama and I have been drafting a new interfaith statement entitled Evangelicals and Cannibals Together.

ML: What did you tell the Dalai Lama when you first met him?

SH: Well, Hello Dalai!

ML: How many people have signed your interfaith statement?

SH: Thus far, Jim Wallis, James Sire, John Neuhaus, Richard Mouw, Timothy George, and Harvey Cox.

ML: We've talked about cannibals. What about suicide bombers?

SH: That's such an unloving label. In my new book I call them "euthanasia bombers."

ML: So you think everyone worships the same God?

SH: Yes, indeed. God wears many masks, but she's the same person underneath.

ML: If she wears a mask, how do you know what lies behind the mask?

SH: That's an unloving question. I only agreed to this interview on condition that I be asked loving questions.