The Weaknesses Of The Zeitoun Marian Apparitions

I've written about my overall view of the Zeitoun case elsewhere, such as here and here. What I want to do in this post is expand upon an aspect of the case I've previously addressed more briefly. The apparitions exhibited some weaknesses that make more sense coming from a source of a lower nature than God or Mary.

More About Zeitoun And The Resurrection

Cameron Bertuzzi just posted a video responding to Gavin Ortlund regarding the Zeitoun Marian apparitions. I want to address several of the issues involved.

What should we make of the Zeitoun Marian apparitions?

I've discussed the subject in other threads over the years, but only briefly, and the Zeitoun case has been getting a lot of attention lately. So, I want to expand upon my previous comments.

"Coptic Christians not Christians"

Do Southern Baptist leaders and other evangelicals really not know what a Christian is or how you become one? Is it being born into an ethnic group that denies the dual-nature of Christ in his full deity and humanity? Is it embracing a meritorious, works-based salvation nearly identical to that of the Roman Catholic church? Is it in aggressively denying salvation by a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ? We ask because that’s what Coptic ‘Christians’ believe. This really isn’t new, and we have to wonder why our leaders don’t know what Coptics believe and if they do, what on Earth makes them think they should be categorized as Christians. 

http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/02/16/coptic-christians-not-christians-southern-baptist-leaders-need-reminded/

Several issues:

i) The interpretation of Oriental Christology is very intricate. I wonder if JD Hall has actually bothered to inform himself on the permutations of that debate:

https://orthodoxjointcommission.wordpress.com/category/official-statements/

ii) Many evangelical laymen have technically heretical views of the Trinity and the person of Christ. Does Hall think only theologians have saving faith?

iii) In addition, the classific of heresy is often a traditional definition, based on Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic paradigms. For instance, Reformed theologians like Paul Helm and B. B. Warfield would be classified as heretics because they deny eternal generation and Nicene subordinationism. 

The Eastern Orthodox would classify Protestants in general, including JD Hall in particular, as heretics. So let's avoid a self-incriminating standard of comparison. 

iv) Obviously there are lots of nominal Christians. However, I generally respect Middle Eastern Christians because they've retained their identity over the centuries despite enormous pressure to cave. It would be so easy for them to convert to Islam. 

v) I don't know if ISIS gave the Copts a choice between martyrdom and conversion to Islam. If so, the fact that they chose imminent martyrdom is a further testament to their faith.

vi) In addition, some ways of dying are far more fearsome than others. To have your head sawed off must be one of the most agonizing and terrifying forms of execution. It would be understandable if a true believer lost his nerve in the face of that prospect. Consider how Peter lost his nerve.

vii) I make allowance for the opportunities that people have. Middle Eastern Christian laymen don't have the same opportunity to revise their theology as American evangelicals have. 

To take a comparison, you couldn't have a Calvin without a Luther, and you couldn't have a Luther without a Valla or Biel. Were there no true believers between the death of St. John and Luther? 

viii) One doesn't have to vouch for the personal piety of each Coptic victim to exercise a general judgment of charity. When Muslims murder professing Christians in Africa and Asia, must we presume they weren't true believers? Is our standing policy to assume the worst?  

ix) There's a difference between faith in Christ alone and faith in faith alone. Faith in Christ alone may be theologically unreflective. It is not, in the first instance, what we believe about faith but what we believe about ourselves in relation to what we believe about our Savior. Sola fide is theologically self-reflective. There's a necessary place for that in orthodox theology. But it's not the essence of saving faith. Faith is not its own object. 

Coptic Christians under siege as mob attacks Cairo cathedral

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/coptic-christians-under-siege-as-mob-attacks-cairo-cathedral-8563600.html

Hundreds of Christians were under siege inside Cairo’s Coptic cathedral [Sunday] night as security forces and local residents, some armed with handguns, launched a prolonged and unprecedented attack on the seat of Egypt’s ancient Church.

At least one person was killed and at least 84 injured as Christians inside the walled St Mark’s cathedral compound came under a frenzied assault from their assailants in the main road outside.

The fighting erupted after a mass funeral for five Copts who were killed during violent clashes in a north Egyptian town on Saturday. A Muslim man also died in the clashes, which happened after an Islamic institute was daubed with offensive graffiti.

Following yesterday’s service thousands of Christians poured out on to the street and began chanting slogans against Mohamed Morsi, the Egyptian President and long-time member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Late last night President Morsi issued a statement in which he said he had spoken to Pope Tawadros II, the leader of the Coptic church, and had given orders for the cathedral and citizens to be guarded. He said protecting the lives of Muslims and Christians was a state responsibility and added: “I consider any attack on the cathedral as an attack on me, personally.”

The man killed in the clashes outside the cathedral was named by the state news agency, MENA, as Mahrous Hana Tadros, a Christian name. MENA said 11 of the 84 injured were police officers.