Tuesday, June 28, 2016

Zetetic astronomy

I got into an impromptu debate with a flat-earther. Yes, they really exist. 

A lot of Drake's biblical prooftexts conflate the issue of geocentrism with a flat earth. Those are separate issues. He seriously needs to upgrade his exegetical resources. For instance:





A few questions for Drake:

i) If the earth is flat, how is it possible, if I board a plane in San Diego and fly continuously in the same direction (east) to arrive back at San Diego? How can east turn into west on a flat earth?

ii) If the earth is flat, and I travel far enough in the same direction, can I fall off the edge of the earth? Is that like a waterfall where the oceans empty into outer space? If I scale a mountain at the end of the earth, will I fall off the edge of the earth into outer space? 

iii) What shape does Drake think the flat earth is? A square? Rectangle? Disk? Cylinder?

iv) What does Drake make of satellite photography of the spherical earth?

v) What does Drake make of the earth viewed from outer space (e.g. Apollo 11)? 

vi) If Drake thinks the earth is square (e.g. "corners" of the earth), why is the shadow of the earth circular during a lunar eclipse?

vii) If the earth is flat, why is it day at some longitudes while it's night at other longitudes? 

Shrinking Sun proves Sun is moving away during a sunset not the Alleged spin of the Earth.

Excuse me, but as any observer can see, the sun appears to be larger, not smaller, on the horizon (at sunrise and sunset). Same thing with the moon.

Polaris and the Constellations have never changed their position.

Depends on your latitude. Also, they could change their positions, but if everything in the Milky Way is moving in the same direction, that wouldn't be noticeable. 

If the Heliocentric explanation of the sphericity of the planets be correct, namely Gravity, the Earth should be a perfectly smooth sphere as should the moon, yet we have massive topographical variation including massive mountains and there are massive craters on the moon.

Gravity is not the only force, Take covalent bonds.

Scripture denotes our location as being under the Sun not orbiting around the Sun. (The Entire book of Ecclesiastes)

If the earth is always under the sun (and the sun is never under the earth), then sunrise and sunset should alternate every other day from east to west to west to east.

Solar eclipses display the sun and moon as the exact same size.

As if there's no relation between distance and apparent size. Does Drake think mountains are actually smaller at a distance? Do they grow as we approach them? 

I have taken numerous flights from Kentucky to California and back and both trips took the same time. If the earth was spinning hundreds of miles an hour Eastward it should have taken much less time to fly from Kentucky to California and how the California to Kentucky flight happened remains a mystery.

Drake acts as though gravity ceases the moment you get off the ground. By that logic, passengers should be floating inside the cabin. Why does he think people fall when they jump from skyscrapers if there is no gravitational pull in the air?

It's like saying if I walk along the deck of a passenger ship, it should take me less time to go in the direction the ship is headed (stem to bow) than in reverse (bow to stern).  

Here's a scientific explanation:

9 comments:

  1. I don't know why he'd use Ecclesiastes to proof-text a flat-earth...the whole point of the book is how everything is viciously circular...

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  2. Wow.

    Seriously though, does he assert pictures of the Earth from space are "fixed"? This kind of willful ignorance is a disservice to Christ.

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  3. iv) What does Drake make of satellite photography of the spherical earth?

    v) What does Drake make of the earth viewed from outer space (e.g. Apollo 11)?


    I think Drake believes humans never went to the moon and that many alleged pictures or videos of a round and/or spinning earth are fake or doctored. Though, it seems to me that a spinning Earth could be explained by relative motion.

    Personally, I'm not certain we reached the moon because one would think the radiation from the Van Allen belts would kill any astronauts passing through it. Though, it's not inconceivable they did survive. In my opinion the many evidences for a round Earth are compelling.

    For example:

    Top 10 Ways to Know the Earth is Not Flat
    http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

    How We Know The Earth Isn’t Flat
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2dTXB3O3dw

    TOP 10 REASONS Why We Know the Earth is Round
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_W280R_Jt8

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    1. http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/earth/3Page7.pdf

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    2. Although relative motion might be invoked with respect to the earth's (orbital) revolution, I don't see how that works with respect to the earth's (axial) rotation.

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  4. It's worth noting that the president of the Flat Earth Society is an evolutionist who believes in global warming:

    http://blog.drwile.com/?p=12379

    Some people will believe anything! :D

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  5. I've happened to watch a bunch of Flat Earth (and debunking-Flat-Earth) documentaries lately. So I can answer some of Steve's questions from the 'standard' Flat Earth view, though I don't know if this particular chap would agree with them.

    i) and iii): The idea is that the Flat Earth is disc-shaped, with the North Pole in the centre and the continents sort of spreadeagled around it. Antarctica is all round the edge of the disc. So if you start at, say, England and fly east, you'll just describe a smaller circle around the North Pole and come back to where you started.

    iv) and v) Most Flat Earthers are conspiracy-theorists regarding NASA and believe the moon landing was faked; some believe satellite images are faked too. (I watched one hilarious video where the guy just kept showing images of Earth and saying "Come on, does this look real to you?")

    Those who don't believe satellite images are faked say that the photos were taken with fish-eye lenses, giving a false impression of roundness.

    vii) The thing to remember is that Flat Earth-ism isn't just about the shape of the Earth; it's an entirely different view of the universe. In the Flat Earth model the sun and stars are far smaller and closer than we think, and there's a celestial dome (a firmament, if you will) on top of everything - making the universe a fairly small, closed system. Oh, and gravity doesn't exist.

    The idea is that a lot of things can be explained by a much (MUCH) smaller, closer sun, including time-zones. Forget exactly how it's meant to work because it's, y'know, cuckoo-pants, and then the last documentary I was watching moved on to 9/11 Trutherism and the JFK assassination and I moved further into the depths of YouTube madness.

    Highly recommend some of the videos though. Great fun. One used a James Bond film as evidence the moon landing was faked (Ian Fleming would have known and was secretly whistleblowing, don'tcha know.)

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    1. Smokering:

      "The idea is that the Flat Earth is disc-shaped"

      As far as disc-shaped worlds go, I prefer Terry Pratchett's. ;-)

      "The thing to remember is that Flat Earth-ism isn't just about the shape of the Earth; it's an entirely different view of the universe. In the Flat Earth model the sun and stars are far smaller and closer than we think, and there's a celestial dome (a firmament, if you will) on top of everything - making the universe a fairly small, closed system."

      Wow, that's...interesting, to say the least! Anyway, flat earthers would have to defend a serious rewrite of the laws of physics for a start.

      "Oh, and gravity doesn't exist."

      I once heard or read a flat earther say he thinks instead of gravity the flat earth is in some sort of perpetual upward accelerated state. Cuckoo pants is a good way to put it! :-)

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  6. The shrinking sun thing is also an optical illusion (http://science.howstuffworks.com/question491.htm)

    That's for the moon, but it holds for the sun as well...

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