Saturday, October 06, 2012

Roman Catholic List Paradigms

Ever since Bryan Cross brought up the concept of “Agape Paradigm” vs “List Paradigm”, nothing has seemed more disingenuous to me. That’s because the Roman Catholicism I grew up with simply amounted to following rules and understanding what was the minimum I needed to do so I wouldn’t get into trouble

Note that while the “Precepts of the church” in the current version are called “the very necessary minimums”, in an earlier version these were called “the indispensible minimums”.

Indispensible because these are Rome’s minimum list of “things you gotta do” in order not to go to hell under the Roman system. (Of course, there’s always a back-door way out. But the back-doors have been figured out after such a time as Rome was VERY serious about putting these lists of minimums in place).

The two posts below illustrate that perfectly:

The Roman Catholic List Paradigm: Precepts of the Church
The Roman Catholic List Paradigm: Holy Days of Obligation

I found these while looking for something else. And while I’d never seen them quite in this way, they encapsulate perfectly the list paradigm that Bryan has been trying to foist upon Protestants.

What’s compelling about these two items (and there are many more like them), is that it’s not just that you have to observe these things; it’s how you have to observe them that really is where Rome becomes a nit-picky nanny.

[And that’s a phrase that seems to suit Bryan very well.]


  1. This series of posts and 'RC bait and switch' have been very helpful. Thanks.

    In my experience it's not just a list it's a checklist - 'done, done, done...let's go sunning'

    Go again next week [month/year/decade...]

    All puts me in mind of:

    1. Nice Andrew!

      While someone like Jason Stellman is out to show "we're not really all that far apart", my hope is to show Rome and the Reformation in the sharpest possible contrast.

  2. John B.

    I have two things to say as I read your quote "we're not really all that far apart" and the two links provided in the article to some Roman Catholic list paradigms.

    First as I follow on some blogs Jason's fall from the One True God and His Son and Their abundance of Grace and gift of Righteousness for that that he now identifies as "not really all that far apart" is this from the writings of Paul the Apostle when he focuses us on the workers of iniquity both angelic and human:

    2Co 11:12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

    My encouragement to you John is keep up the work you are doing to expose and mark them and their errors!

    Second is this as I went and clicked on the links and read your words that I thought to myself do they have a section for people that commit suicide? I was watching a program on the T.V. some time back where a man had set up his camera and tripod at the northwest base of the Golden Gate Bridge to capture the events of a sequence of days there to find to his horror that he unwittingly was also capturing people jumping off the bridge! As he discovered he had video recorded that about average every two weeks someone would jump! After a period of time of catching the jumpers he revealed to his watching audience the moment of the jump but didn't show their impact although he would follow them down. In one instance I saw as a woman climbed over to jump she was holding her rosary beads and she then did that thing Catholics do making the cross sign touching their foreheads and chest and shoulders! The question that occurs to me to ask after reading what you posted is have you come across any "system" for suicide for someone like this woman who apparently was praying to the god of the Roman Catholic Church holding her rosary beads and making that final cross sign just as she was jumping?

    1. Thanks for the encouragement Michael.

      I'm not sure about the suicide thing. The CCC now says you don't know what the eternal status will be of those who commit suicide:

      But I'm not sure how they publicize that.

    2. John,

      that's what I was looking for, that link and those words!