Thursday, September 17, 2009

Control and governance

According to Billy Birch:

“First, notice that God is said not to control the actions and passions of his creatures (as is explicitly admitted by Calvinists), but that he governs such. The difference is paramount for a faithful, appropriate, and correct understanding of God as revealed throughout the tenor of Scripture.”

But according to his alter ego:

“I was a youth pastor when 9/11 hit. Many of the kids wanted to know how to react to the situation as far as God was concerned. The first thing I let them know was that this did not take God by surprise. He is in control."

Arminian theodicy suffers from multiple-personality disorder.


  1. I thought we weren't supposed to be obtuse, Steve...?


    ?I thought we weren't supposed to be obtuse, Steve...?"

    Tell that to Billy.

  3. Speaking of 9/11 ...

    Since God decreed 9/11 and was intimately involved with its occurrence, all of those people at home and abroad who rejoiced at the falling of the Twin Towers really weren't far off in terms of the correctness of their sentiments, no?

    After all, they were just giving praise to God for His just judgments.

    What else is there to do but thank Him for such things? What's the alternative, exactly?

    In light of God's degree of "control" over all things, I don't see how any human tragedy can be greeted with anything other than merriment.

  4. John,

    You have a mindless habit of raising stale objections which I and others have already addressed on various occasions.

    So why do you bother? Is this a form of therapy for you? Just a feel-good exercise? Something to kill time before you die?

  5. I've made no accusation that Christians generally behaved one way or the other.

    I do see a corrolary to the assertion that God decrees ALL and that God's decrees are always good - namely, His decrees would thus merit our praise and thanks, even when they are difficult to bear.

    Why is this stale and irrational?

    BTW, your topical index is a bit too general to really find specifics within the vast number of posts. If something's been addressed, feel free to respond with a link. I don't think I'm the only one here who's touched upon something already addressed months ago.

    I post because I like to probe these topics and challenge my assumptions. I like to know where my patterns of thinking are errant.

  6. Calvinism:

    Nestorian Christology, Pelagian soteriology, Islamic on the Will of God, and a Cathar genealogy!


  7. John,

    I do thank God for whatever happens. However, that doesn't equate with merriment.

    My younger brother and I may not get along very well until a traffic accident leaves him in a wheelchair. That brings us closer together.

    His disability is not, itself, a source of merriment.

    If you presume to raise moralistic objections to Christianity in general or Calvinism in particular, try not to to be so morally superficial in the process.

  8. HOB SAID:


    Nestorian Christology, Pelagian soteriology, Islamic on the Will of God, and a Cathar genealogy!





    The Fall, Noah's flood, Egyptian bondage, Babylonian Exile, and a Crucifixion!