Sunday, November 26, 2006

The "immanent" return of Christ

Pace Touchstone, I'd have more confidence in his command of the secondary literature if exapologist knew the difference between *immanent* and *imminent*.

exapologist said...

John the Baptist preached a message of repentance to escape the immanent judgment of the eschaton.

In fact, some manuscripts of Revelation have the number read ‘616’, which turns out to add up to a slightly less formal version of Nero’s name!), thus clearly indicating that the end was immanent.

Witherington gets around the problem by saying that Jesus preached that the immanent arrival of the eschatological kingdom...

He's basically saying, "yes, he did make a prediction for an eschaton within his generation, but you know what? God's days are longer than ours; so what's immanent for us isn't necessarily immanent to him."

I would add to this some of the points from the list in my original post, e.g., the successive watering down of the discussion of Christ's immanent return...

If we add the points I mentioned in my previous post, viz., the successive watering down of the discussion of Christ's immanent return...

http://exapologist.blogspot.com/2006/11/one-of-main-reasons-for-why-i-think.html

TOUCHSTONE SAID:

I don't know Exapologist, but from what I understand he is a PhD candidate in philosophy some where. Reading his arguments, it's quite clear to me he's both familiar with the scriptural texts and the relevant schools of thought about it on this issue.

18 comments:

  1. It isn't always what people know, but what they plan to do with the knowledge they dispense. I wonder what the shepherds who decry Christ have planned for their deconverted flock??

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  2. It seems quite clear that EA used the word 'immanent' when he meant 'imminent'. But this seems like a case of mis-spelling the word. Are you complaining about his spelling here?

    I regular type "Your", when I should say "You're", and "Their" when I mean to say "They're". It's a regrettable bit of bad typing on my part. My wife highlights very long posts on a homeschooling forum I frequent where I use "Your" incorrectly *ever* time when I should have used "You're".

    But it would be a mistake to suggest that I didn't understand the difference between a possessive and a contraction, wouldn't it?

    -Touchstone

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  3. :::SNIZZZZZ!!!!:::

    (great work, Steve, as usual!)

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  4. Great ad hominems, Steve!


    Your the best.

    Signed,

    A fan of hate.

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  5. We all know what he meant. But when he uses the wrong word every single time, then is it just a misspelling?

    If he were that well read up on the eschatological literature, then we'd expect him to use the right word as a matter of habit.

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  6. Or, more simply: it's just one of those words that I can never get straight? I remember my days at Talbot, hearing Moreland repeatedly say 'prostate' when he meant 'prostrate'. Sorry -- just one of my (many) flaws.

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  7. Steve,

    I appreciate your vigilance when it comes to spelling. Please work on your fellow T-blogger, Paul Manata, as his mighty pen is often hindered by his horrible spelling.

    Thanks!

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  8. Touchstone. To mis-spell a word regularly is to be without excuse. When I was a teacher, I regularly encountered students who, when confronted with a mis-spelling would say, 'I always do that.' That is not an excuse!! If you know you make a mistake, work to correct it.

    Good spelling is not hard. It is not some arcane art. It takes care and attention. That is all.

    In my current line of work, I have to write letters to members of the public. This requires clear written English, and to use one word for another throughout (not a typo) argues for poor education or simple laziness.

    If you know you have a problem with spelling, sort it out, don't make excuses! Don't be lazy, train yourself to use the right word.

    Equally, in the case of immanent, it is not mis-spelling, but using the wrong word entirely. It is a bad habit, more so in writing than speech, and must be corrected in both cases.

    "I always do that" is lazy and foolish, far from being an admission of fault, it is an admission that one cannot be bothered to learn.

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  9. Oh, and while I'm on my high horse, the man who makes excuses for his spelling (and pronunciation) will always come across as unteachable. My parents always corrected my mistakes in this department, as did my brother. I resented it like hell, but it has made me aware that one of my greatest temptations is to be arrogant and unteachable.

    However, the truth is that the man who corrects another does him good, and must accept correction himself.

    For example, I used to pronounce the 'b' in subtle. When my mother corrected me, I felt vey angry, but now, when I think how silly I would have sounded saying that in public, I thank her!

    And, EA, you must break the habit. One speaking of the 'Immanent return of Christ' might be taken as meaning that the return of Christ has been, and was a secret and spiritual one, as the Jehovah's Witnesses teach, while 'Imminent' means something very different.

    Now, I am by no means perfect. For example, when spelling 'pronunciation' above, I had to resort to a dictionary, and I still require a dictionary to spell 'hygiene'.

    May I recommend that you do more handwriting. I find it helps when one knows the shape of words. Read what you've written after writing.

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  10. Like any other academic, I check for mistakes before submitting an article for publication, or posting lecture notes -- or even emailing a colleague or student. But checking for spelling on a *blog* (especially *this* blog)? Give me a break.

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  11. Witherington gets around the problem by saying that Jesus preached that the immanent arrival of the eschatological kingdom...

    He's basically saying, "yes, he did make a prediction for an eschaton within his generation, but you know what? God's days are longer than ours; so what's immanent for us isn't necessarily immanent to him."


    This is facile, even for ex-apologist. What is stated is that John was the last of the Old Covenant prophets, and that the eschaton he preached was the end of the Old Covenant. Since coming of Christ, His death, Resurrection, and Session are the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and Christ Himself pronounces a covenant lawsuit on the nation and subsequently began a New Covenant, the eschaton about which John the Baptist preached was fulfilled.

    What's more in the OT, the day of the Lord is both a time and a repeating theme. It is an ongoing affair with many fulfillments, that culminate in the judgment of the New Covenant people and subsequently the whole world. Did the last generation of the Old Covenant community see the Temple destroyed? Yes, and they knew full well that this was "the day of the Lord," just as it had been for the Exile generation. Those who make objections like this tell us more about their illiteracy than anything else.

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  12. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  13. Hiraeth,

    However, the truth is that the man who corrects another does him good, and must accept correction himself.

    You wrote:

    If you know you have a problem with spelling, sort it out, don't make excuses!

    Your sentence should have read, "If you know you have a problem with spelling, sort it out; [semicolon] don't make excuses," or, "If you know you have a problem with spelling, sort it out. [period] Don't make excuses!"

    You wrote:

    Don't be lazy, train yourself to use the right word.

    Your sentence should have read, "Don't be lazy; [semicolon] train yourself to use the right word," or "Don't be lazy. [period] Train yourself to use the right word."

    You wrote:

    "I always do that" is lazy and foolish, far from being an admission of fault, it is an admission that one cannot be bothered to learn.

    Your sentence should have read, "'I always do that' is lazy and foolish. [period] Far from being an admission of fault, it is an admission that one cannot be bothered to learn."

    Does repeatedly misusing commas "argue[] for poor education or simple laziness"?

    You wrote:

    Equally, in the case of immanent, it is not mis-spelling, but using the wrong word entirely.

    When mentioning a word, instead of using it, you should enclose that word in quotation marks. Your sentence should have read, "Equally in the case of 'immanent,' it is not mis-spelling, but using the wrong word entirely."

    You wrote:

    May I recommend that you do more handwriting.

    When asking a question, it is approprate to use a question mark instead of a period. Your sentence should have read, "May I recommend that you do more handwriting?

    I take it that you were educated in Europe, so I'll overlook the period outside of your (mostly single) quotation marks. This is cultural.

    But, may I recommend that you review punctuation rules? Read what you've written after writing.

    C'mon fellas, dis is bloggin!!!

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  14. And, yes, I forgot to close my quotation mark in my last correction.

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  15. Hey Mom,

    Since you guys have claimed that anonymous bloggers and posters are me, and that I'm a bad speller, maybe exapologist is me? Ever thought of that?

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  16. And, interlocutor, spelling and grammar are two different things. The rules of English grammar sadly were not taught at the schools I went ot in England, as some morons had got them removed. thus reading through produces a style based on conversational, not written English.

    Thus, it argues for an inadequate education in the proper use of punctuation. As you noted, I was educated in Europe.

    Thank you for your concern, laddie. I'll look to those errors.

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  17. As for, this being blogging, it still does not excuse EA's actual mistake, which was using the wrong word throughout. To then claim this is a habitual error and thus okay is the problem, more than the actual howler.

    And, EA, running a spell check would not have helped, as immanent is a real word.

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  18. Hi Paully,

    Do you deny that you sometimes post as 'anonymous' or 'other' identities than 'Paul Manata?'

    Remember, your sin will find you out!

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