"The core of what Roman Catholicism stands for has never changed". Probably one of the main challenges is going to be The battle over words. Rome uses basic Protestant language, and tries to re-define it, in its own way.
John: De Chirico's portrayal of Jorge has him being, well, rather jesuitical in his manipulativeness. Does he really think he can keep mutually antagonistic camps under his big tent by dint of personality &/or papal office? ISTM he is deliberately marginalizing conservatives while playing to the Left. Given the history of Lib churches, this is not a winning strategy.
Kirk -- I'm not sure Bergoglio is aware of what the liberal US churches have been doing to themselves. I'd say the thought of bringing mutually antagonistic camps under the big tent is more a result of the hubris of "catholicity". The thought that "both/and" thinking is something other than a rejection of the law of non-contradiction.
There's also a common sense issue here, sort of like a big tent housing Black Lives Matter and the KKK. Jorge's situation seems unstable, unless he's counting on conservatives' view of the papacy suppressing any notions of open revolt. They have no real options: the history of the Old Catholics revealed a slide into liberalism (PNCC being the exception), while SSPX and sede's fight among themselves like Old Calendar Orthodox types..
//unless he's counting on conservatives' view of the papacy suppressing any notions of open revolt.//
I think you make a good point here.
I would just hope and pray that Rome's leftward tilt will help some conservative Catholics realize conservative Protestant objections to Rome were correct all along.
Kirk, I think that they think that the word "catholic" can really be stretched a lot. Even if the conservatives don't view it that way. I think that the conservatives (for now) would sit tight and wait for Bergoglio's death (and bank on his "successor") rather than go in one of those other directions. At least at this point.
They are going to have a long wait and are not noted for their patience, so things may get interesting...although Jorge has managed to evade the dubia.
///I would just hope and pray that Rome's leftward tilt will help some conservative Catholics realize conservative Protestant objections to Rome were correct all along. ///
Geoff -- I'm not too sure this is the case. Maybe with some of the more "enthusiastic" converts. But Rome does tend to think in longer terms (if not all Roman Catholics). Maybe if the next pope turned out to be one of Bergoglio's more liberal appointees.
Kirk, yeah, the converts may become impatient, but there is a level at which "official Rome" can be very patient. But if the next pope or two are Bergoglio liberals (who can continue to promote liberal Cardinals and Bishops), then things could get very interesting.
John: De Chirico's portrayal of Jorge has him being, well, rather jesuitical in his manipulativeness. Does he really think he can keep mutually antagonistic camps under his big tent by dint of personality &/or papal office? ISTM he is deliberately marginalizing conservatives while playing to the Left. Given the history of Lib churches, this is not a winning strategy.
ReplyDeleteKirk -- I'm not sure Bergoglio is aware of what the liberal US churches have been doing to themselves. I'd say the thought of bringing mutually antagonistic camps under the big tent is more a result of the hubris of "catholicity". The thought that "both/and" thinking is something other than a rejection of the law of non-contradiction.
DeleteThere's also a common sense issue here, sort of like a big tent housing Black Lives Matter and the KKK. Jorge's situation seems unstable, unless he's counting on conservatives' view of the papacy suppressing any notions of open revolt. They have no real options: the history of the Old Catholics revealed a slide into liberalism (PNCC being the exception), while SSPX and sede's fight among themselves like Old Calendar Orthodox types..
Delete//unless he's counting on conservatives' view of the papacy suppressing any notions of open revolt.//
DeleteI think you make a good point here.
I would just hope and pray that Rome's leftward tilt will help some conservative Catholics realize conservative Protestant objections to Rome were correct all along.
Kirk, I think that they think that the word "catholic" can really be stretched a lot. Even if the conservatives don't view it that way. I think that the conservatives (for now) would sit tight and wait for Bergoglio's death (and bank on his "successor") rather than go in one of those other directions. At least at this point.
DeleteThey are going to have a long wait and are not noted for their patience, so things may get interesting...although Jorge has managed to evade the dubia.
Delete///I would just hope and pray that Rome's leftward tilt will help some conservative Catholics realize conservative Protestant objections to Rome were correct all along. ///
DeleteGeoff -- I'm not too sure this is the case. Maybe with some of the more "enthusiastic" converts. But Rome does tend to think in longer terms (if not all Roman Catholics). Maybe if the next pope turned out to be one of Bergoglio's more liberal appointees.
Kirk, yeah, the converts may become impatient, but there is a level at which "official Rome" can be very patient. But if the next pope or two are Bergoglio liberals (who can continue to promote liberal Cardinals and Bishops), then things could get very interesting.
Delete