Wednesday, September 24, 2008

I AM a Serious Thinker

Just got an email from an unammed source complaining that I misrepresented his atheological masterpiece, showing that I am not a "serious thinker."

I will post a slightly edited copy of the email, along with empirical evidence that proves that I AM a serious thinker. Here's the email:

////////////////////

Paul,

I think you want to be known as a serious thinker. With you post ... you misrepresented me and the arguments in my book ... Anyone who thumbs through the pages of my book will see that you did. Now I know you hate me with the hatred of your God, but that does not give you the right to misrepresent what I write. One last time. If you do this you will lose credibility in the eyes of people who have actually do read through my book. That's the bottom line. They will see you are not being honest as a thinker. Now I understand you don't think I deserve any honesty, since you believe God may have created me for hell. But by not being honest about the arguments of another person it will reveal that you are not interested in the truth. Whether or not you are, cannot be seen by your readers. And unless you do, your arguments will not help those who read my book who are looking for good solid reasons against what I've written. I think I've said this before. In my book I try as best as I can NOT to misrepresent my intellectual opponents, and I would gladly accept any criticism from anyone who can show that I did. That's why I AM considered a serious thinker and you are not, even if you think I'm dead wrong.

Here's an email I received from a serious thinker about you:

Manata's not a thinker, he's a fighter. You know that. Thinking isn't for truth-finding, it's just a tool to fight with for him, only as useless as it is effective as a combat weapon.

So, color me cynical, but I think he would be one of the last you should wait on for some kind of honest reckoning.

It's too bad because he has the capacity and faculties to be a good thinker. Blows punks like Hays out of the water. But Christianity is a clenched fist swung in anger against the philistines -- it keeps him from physical violence, and still feeds the narcissism and fear that drives his deep need to fight, to abuse.

Don't hold your breath. ;-)

A couple people I've talked to -- like one of the guys at prosblogion -- come to the conclusion you'd expect with Manata. Not credible, a hack, and in an unfortunate way, because he could be something more. Serious thinkers are unlikely to be taken in by Manata's sophistry, I think.
Regards,

A. Serious Thinker

////////////////////


But I take umbrage with the above. Anyone with eyes can see that, in fact, I AM a serious thinker:

Doin' some serious thinking

(P.S. Note the demonstrably false claim about Steve Hays. Drops the credibility down to around zero.)

Principled conservatism

Victor Reppert has peppered me with some questions. I’ll rearrange the sequence of the questions to put them in a more logical order

Do you seriously doubt that many have benefitted from government involvement in the economic life of the public?

That’s a good example of what principled conservatism is not. I’ll make a couple of general points:

i) Notice how Reppert deploys a pragmatic/utilitarian argument to justify the welfare state. But he opposes pragmatic/utilitarian arguments in counterterrorism. He’s a utilitarian pragmatist on domestic policy, but a Kantian deontologist on foreign policy.

Obviously his value theory doesn’t select for any particular position. Rather, his particular position selects for a corresponding value theory.

ii) One of the problems with appealing to the benefits of gov’t intervention to justify gov’t intervention is that his appeal cuts both ways. If gov’t intervention uniformly or generally beneficial, this appeal would be more persuasive.

But gov’t intervention can either be beneficial or maleficial. The same policy can be both beneficial and maleficial. Beneficial at one time, maleficial at another time. Beneficial to some, maleficial to others.

Take gun control. There are some situations in which gun control will save innocent lives. But there are other situations in which gun control will cost innocent lives.

Therefore, appealing to the benefits of gov’t intervention is not a principled appeal. It’s not even a practical appeal. It’s a doubled edged sword.

What, in your view, constitutes principled conservatism? This isn't just a rhetorical attack. I'd really like to see what conservatism is really all about. The "conservative" ideology that has run the Bush administration seems to be an ideology that looks out for big business first and foremost. If that means government involvement, then government gets involved. It that means reducing government, then government is reduced. But I see no commitment to limited government as an overall governing principle. That is why, if you really convinced me that conservative principles were true, I would register, not Republican, but Libertarian.

1. Of course, conservatism isn’t monolithic.

i) To be a principled conservative, one would have to be fairly intellectual. Have a conservative philosophy.

ii) Here are some examples principled conservative theorists: John Frame, Ronald Nash, Rousas Rushdoony, Samuel Rutherford.

iii) We also have conservative pundits. I don’t know the overarching philosophy of all these pundits, assuming they have one. But here are some pundits whom I think are fairly good representatives of a conservative outlook:

Victor Davis Hansen, Mark Levin, Michael Medved, Dennis Prager, John Mark Reynolds, Thomas Sowell, Ben Stein, and Bill Vallicella.

iv) Although it’s a rare combination, some men are both men of ideas and men of action. They theorize, but they put their theories into practice through gov’t service.

Two historic examples would be John Calvin and Abraham Kuyper.

Two contemporary examples would be Robert Bork and Newt Gingrich.

2. What about my own position?

i) Since I’m a Protestant, I begin with the Bible. And the part of the Bible that has the most to say about statecraft is the Torah.

ii) In considering the applicability of OT statecraft to modern statecraft, we have to make allowance for two basic discontinuities:

a) OT law is, to some extent, adapted to the socioeconomic conditions of the ANE. In some cases, it’s inapplicable to our own socioeconomic conditions. In other cases, it needs to be modernized.

b) Israel enjoyed cultic holiness. As a result, a number of laws have their basis in ritual purity or impurity. And that’s a timebound feature of OT law.

iii) In OT statecraft, the law of God is prior to the state. The law authorizes the state.

This stands in contrast to secular statecraft, where the state is prior to the law. In secular statecraft, the state is the lawgiver. The state determines what rights, if any, the citizenry enjoys.

OT statecraft lays a foundation for limited gov’t, while secular statecraft lays a foundation for totalitarian gov’t.

iv) In Biblical anthropology, man is fallen. Man is a sinner. This is another presupposition of limited gov’t. Rulers are not morally superior to the governed. As such, their own power needs to be curbed.

v) Apart from the element of ritual purity, which doesn’t concern us, the Mosaic law is basically an application of the creation mandates to the concrete situation of Israel. The creation mandates boil down to family, labor, dominion, and Sabbath.

That’s another presupposition of limited gov’t. The scope of the state is commensurate with the scope of the law, and the scope of the law is limited to safeguarding the free exercise of the creation mandates.

vi) OT law establishes a least lower threshold for socially acceptable conduct, not an upper threshold for socially acceptable conduct.

OT law isn’t utopian. Rather, it sets a minimal standard of tolerable conduct. And that’s one more presupposition of limited gov’t.

vii) Finally, if we look at OT penology, various case laws are applicable to business ethics and corporate law, viz. theft, debt, bribery, usury, wrongful death or injury, oath-breaking, moving/removing landmarks.

Those are situations where gov’t regulation is warranted.

Do you support scrapping Social Security, either gradually or suddenly?

Gradually.

Do you hold to a general principle of laissez-faire capitalism, that the government ought to stay out of the economy. That principle is equally violated by a corporate bailout as it is by LBJ's War on Poverty.

I reject laissez-faire capitalism (see above).

Was the GI Bill socialism?

It was compensation for compulsory military service.

Do you oppose any and all government assistance to poor people?

i) It should be a last resort. However, you did have charitable loansin the OT, as well as gleaning the fields. So there’s nothing inherently wrong with gov’t assistance to the poor.

ii) At the same time, the OT also distinguishes between those who are poor through no fault of their own, and those who are poor because they are lazy or shortsighted.

Are child labor laws justified? There's government intervention to be sure.

i) In the Bible, children have different abilities and responsibilities than adults.

ii) At the same time, the reason most of our kids don’t work for a living is because we happen to live in a fairly affluent land where we don’t need them to work. Poorer families in poorer countries don’t have that luxury.

And who do you think was last conservative President? If you say GW Bush I'm going to laugh. Ronald Reagan? Give me a break. Herbert Hoover? Maybe.

The leaders who have run the Republican party for years are not principled conservatives. They want government to back big business. Their hearts start bleeding at the sight of a failing multinational corporation.


i) Principled conservatism is grounded in a conservative philosophy. We don’t begin with a party or politician as our role-model.

ii) Moreover, our choices are delimited by the choices of others. We can only vote for those who choose to run. Later primary voters can only vote for candidates who survived the earlier primaries. And general election voters can only vote for candidates who survived the primaries.

So it comes down to voting for the available candidates, or not voting at all.

Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Emergent Dualism

William Hasker’s chapter on emergent dualism in For Faith and Clarity is clear and lucid. The argument is easy to follow and flows smoothly. At times I was tempted to say, “Almost thou persuadest me to be an emergent dualist.” But at the end of the day I didn’t see what it offered me that a more traditional form of dualism didn’t. I guess I don’t feel the need to make my view more palatable to evolutionists and physicalist neuroscientists.

Hasker’s chapter consists of arguments against physicalist theories of mind, traditional dualist theories (e.g., Cartesian dualism), Christian physicalist views, emergent materialist views, as well as a positive statement of emergent dualism in light of the difficulties the aforementioned positions face and how emergent dualism fares in light of the critiques leveled against the aforementioned positions.

Rather than discuss all of this, I’d like to focus on just one small aspect of Hasker’s chapter. One puzzling feature arises when we look at one of Hasker’s (according to Hasker) strongest arguments against traditional dualism vis-à-vis the way he responds to one of the strongest (according to Hasker) arguments against emergent dualism.

Hasker thinks that the traditional dualist has “no plausible explanation” for the “dependency problem” (cf. p.249).1 Simply put, the “dependency problem” is that Cartesian dualism would not lead us to expect the sort of dependency of the mind on the brain that we find to be the case. Given all that we know about this dependency, it seems to be difficult to maintain the type of independence traditional dualism seems to require. A paradigm case that illustrates this problem is, say, that of a blow to the head that causes changes in the mental life. Presumably, according to Hasker, this demonstrable dependency goes far beyond anything this theory would lead us to expect.

One thing I find puzzling in all of this isn’t the fact that Hasker seems to answer this alleged conundrum in the preceding paragraph in recognizing what Charles Taliaferro has called “integrative dualism.” According to this view “mind and body form an integral unit, so that I live through my body and my body’s life is my own life” (ibid). My problem is rather with how Hasker answers what he takes to be a significant challenge to emergent dualism.

Hasker notes that emergent dualism requires us to attribute to ordinary, everyday matter, viz., sticks, stones, bones, and ice cream cones, highly remarkable powers that can produce, when arranged just right, “emergent minds with the capacity to seek truth, enjoy beauty, perceive good and evil, and enter relationship with God." Apparently one critique has said this is impossible. That might be too strong of language. But another objector maintains that the view is “hard to swallow.” Hasker says, “He may be right; perhaps this view is a lot to swallow” (p.260).

So this view seems to force us to hold beliefs far beyond what “what we have been led to expect” (ibid). But somehow this isn’t a problem for Hasker since when God “chose to make humans…out of the dust of the earth, we may well suppose that [God] had the foresight to endow that dust with powers that would enable such a creation” (ibid).

In other words, when faced with the prospect of believing something to occur that “we wouldn’t expect” on Hasker’s thesis, he appeals to a “Goddditit”2 view. But, when the traditional dualist has a similar problem, it is an objection “not easily met” (p.249). If Hasker gets to say “Goddidit” when things get tough, so does the traditional dualist. This is not to say that I find Hasker’s worries all that worrisome, myself, it is just to say that I see a bit of special pleading on his end.

___________________

1 His other example of a difficult objection to traditional dualism is the “continuity problem” (cf. p.249-50). Hasker thinks it difficult for the traditional dualist to claim that only man has a soul over against all the other creatures. I suspect I don’t owe an answer to one of his reasons why this view is troublesome for us, i.e., it’s “chauvinistic,” since one might say that his view not attributing minds to sticks, stones, bones, and ice cream cones is likewise “chauvinistic.” His stronger objection is that other animals are similar to us in both structure and function so why would we have minds and not them? Well, (a) that’s the way God chose to create, and (b) man is the imago Dei and , apparently, the soul is a means to exhibit certain features and functions of the imago Dei. Didn’t Hasker tell us one function of the soul (mind) is “the capacity to seek truth, enjoy beauty, perceive good and evil, and enter relationship with God”?

2 I likewise don't have a problem with "Goddidit." I don't use this term as a pejorative.

Brain on idle

VICTOR REPPERT SAID:

The Church, for example, doesn't have the means and resources to solve the mortgage crisis today. It would be great if they did, but they don't. And it's the conservative George W. Bush administration who is saddled with the task of engaging in a little socialism to restore our economy.

Since I’m not an economist, I’m not going to venture an option on how to solve the current financial crisis. But I will make a couple of general observations:

i) Freddie and Fannie are quasi-gov’t agencies to begin with. That’s one of the problems. They don’t have to be efficient since they know they can always fall back on Uncle Sam if they fail. So it comes as no surprise when they fail.

ii) Now, when gov’t fails, the liberal solution is more gov’t. If an oversight agency fails, the liberal solution is to create a new oversight agency to oversee the old oversight agency. If the new oversight agency fails, the liberal solution is to create a newer oversight agency to oversee the old oversight agency to oversee the older oversight agency. When bureaucracy fails, the liberal solution is to add another layer of bureaucracy.

Liberals are constitutionally incapable of ever learning from experience. They have the same answer to every problem: more gov’t. And when gov’t is the problem, the answer is...more gov’t.

iii) This brings me to a final point: most folks, including most voters and most politicians, are crisis-oriented.

Many crises are foreseeable and preventable. Indeed, many crises have been predicted, and preventive measures proposed.

But because most folks are crisis-oriented, this falls on deaf ears. It’s just an abstraction.

So when the predictable crisis predictably occurs, most people then act shocked and irate. “How could this happen?”

They then create a new oversight agency so that “This will never happen again.”

But, of course, bureaucracies are no better than bureaucrats. The oversight officials are crisis-oriented. They, too, disregard the warning signs.

Hence, every 10 or 15 years or so, give or take, the cycle repeats itself.

There is no accountability in gov’t since most voters reward bureaucratic bungling, year after year after year.

Surely you aren't suggesting that Social Security and Medicare were bad ideas.

Only a pseudo-philosopher would respond with this incredulous exclamation. For Reppert, it’s beyond question that Social Security and Medicare are good ideas.

Now, a real philosopher questions assumptions. But not Reppert.

Hasn’t Reppert ever bothered to notice that our entitlement programs are terminally insolvent? There are not enough workers to support the retirees. So it becomes a classic pyramid scheme.

No, I don’t think it’s a good idea for gov’t to own our retirement portfolio. At that point, it’s not our money. It belongs to Uncle Sam. The account is in the name of Uncle Sam.

So politicians simply divert the money nominally appropriated to Social Security to their pet projects. The gov’t writes itself IOUs to be redeemed by...the gov’t. But we keep financing the present off of the diminishing returns of the future. Anyone with half a brain can see where this is headed. Same thing with Medicare.

Republicans, nowadays, typically tell us we should elect them so that these institutions can be saved.

To begin with, I’m a conservative first and a Republican second. My ideological identity is primary, not my partisan identity. My ideology selects for my party, not vice versa.

Since so many voters are addicted to the welfare state, it’s almost impossible for Republicans to get elected or reelected without, in some measure, pandering to voters who demand welfare statism.

And such "welfare" often requires work, as in Obama's plan to pay for college education in exchange for government service.

Once again, if Reppert were a real philosopher rather than a pseudo-philosopher, he’d stop and question the underlying assumption: why does college tuition annually rise faster than the inflation rate? Why should it be necessary to become an indentured public servant to afford a college education?

Victorian revisionism

VICTOR REPPERT SAID:

I did not say anyone was blameworthy for not helping the poor. So I wasn't making a charge of being miserly. What I was saying is that under the circumstances private charity is not enough and that government involvement is a good thing.

I did not make it personal by what I said. I simply said that private charity seems not to be up to the task of taking care of human needs and that under some circumstances, government assistance is a good thing.

Anyway, you apparently accused me of a lack of personal generosity, without any facts about the situation to back it
up.

Reppert is now attempting to reinterpret his initial claims in a way that’s demonstrably at odds with his initial claims. This is what he originally said:

It would be wonderful it trickle-down actually worked, or if in particular Christians were so generous enough so that government action was not necessary. The evidence suggests otherwise.

Social Security was identified with Socialism when it was proposed, and it is sometimes attacked today as a Ponzi scheme. But I can't forget how much things better were for my mother and father, both political conservatives, once they started receiving it. In my childhood Medicare was attacked as Socialism, but again, it has made a huge difference to many people, including my parents.


Let’s work these statements into a consecutive argument, then compare his original argument with his revisionism:

i) Gov’t action is sometimes necessary.
a) Paradigm examples of necessary gov’t action: Social Security & Medicare.
b) Personal examples of beneficiaries: Reppert’s parents.
ii) Gov’t action [e.g. (a)] is sometimes necessary because Christians aren’t generous enough.

Let’s now compare his initial argument with his current spin:

I did not say anyone was blameworthy for not helping the poor.

Of course you did! You said that Christians aren’t generous enough. That’s a negative value-judgment.

So I wasn't making a charge of being miserly.

Of course you were! You said Christians aren’t generous enough. That would mean they’re miserly.

What I was saying is that under the circumstances private charity is not enough and that government involvement is a good thing.

And why is private charity not enough? Because (according to you) Christians aren’t generous enough.

I did not make it personal by what I said.

Of course you made it personal! You made it personal on two grounds: (i) You accused Christians in general of being insufficiently generous, and (ii) you used your own parents to illustrate the necessity of gov’t action.

I simply said that private charity seems not to be up to the task of taking care of human needs and that under some circumstances, government assistance is a good thing.

No, you didn’t simply say that. You gave a reason for why private charity isn’t up to the task: Christians aren’t generous enough.

Anyway, you apparently accused me of a lack of personal generosity, without any facts about the situation to back it up.

Two problems:

i) You accused Christians in general of lacking personal generosity without any facts about their individual situation to back it up. Spare me the double standard.

ii) I don’t have to know a thing about you. My accusation was a logical inference from the implicit structure of your own argument:

i) Gov’t action is sometimes necessary.
a) Paradigm examples of necessary gov’t action: Social Security & Medicare.
b) Personal examples of beneficiaries: Reppert’s parents.
ii) Gov’t action [e.g. (a)] is sometimes necessary because Christians aren’t generous enough.
iii) Reppert is a Christian.
iv) Reppert’s parents were worse off before they began to receive Social Security and Medicare.
v) Therefore, Reppert wasn’t generous enough in providing for the needs of his own parents.

Monday, September 22, 2008

The Avalos Legend: A Study of Some Blog Texts and the Tale of a Debunking Christianity Hero Who Was Exposed in the Blogosphere

“I see no reference yet to perhaps the most important study of the Sargon legend—Brian Lewis, The Sargon Legend: A Study of the Akkadian Text and The Tale of the Hero Who Was Exposed at Birth.” - Hector Avalos
I will attempt to fill that lacuna.

I. Introduction

Brian Lewis’ book is a study of the seventh century BC text which purports to be an autobiography of the extraordinary birth of the famous third-millennium king, Sargon of Akkad. The text claims that Sargon's mother abandoned him on a river in a basket waterproofed with bitumen, he was pulled from the river by Aqqi the water drawer, adopted, and became a famous king. Similarities with Moses are seen. The text was first published in 1872, so it's not like scholars, both orthodox and liberal, are unaware of the story of Sargon. Its relevance is discussed in many commentaries on Exodus. Lewis discusses the text, issues pertinent to dating, traces the exposed-hero motif throughout time and across cultures, and also discusses its similarity with the birth story of Moses related in Exodus 2 in a couple of pages. Its relevance to the debate between Steve Hays and Hector Avalos, to the historicity of Moses’ birth, and Hector Avalos’s claims about the book’s significance are discussed below.

II. Methodological Issues:

A. One must admit that it is a bit odd for Avalos to appeal to Lewis’s authority given that when we go to authorities he makes claims to the effect that we do not know enough about the technical presuppositions required in order to make an informed decision about what said authority says.

This is representative of Avalos’s comments: “Can Triablogue tell you whether [what a putative expert said] is true or not? No. They would have to know enough about Hebrew/Aramaic Jewish literature in the postexilic period to evaluate this claim.”

Apparently the above, making the obvious corrections, viz., cuneiform, Neo-Assyrian, et alia, would apply to Lewis’s monograph. And so Avalos asks us to consider integral evidence to the argument that he thinks we are not in a position to consider.

Heading off one of Avalos’s major points in response to the work we have done, I fully concede my ignorance of these technical issues. I admit, in advance, that, according to Avalos’s criteria, I “cannot tell you whether what any of Lewis said is true or not.” Well, those things that require a working knowledge of Hebrew/Aramaic and Jewish literature, cuneiform, Neo-Assyrian, ANE history and languages, hieroglyphics, tealeaf reading, etc!

Along with this concession come some consequences: I cannot tell if anything Avalos says in response is true or not. No one reading this post, or any rejoinder by Avalos, can tell whether he has effectively rebutted me or not, unless they are trained specialists in the relevant areas. This includes the members of Debunking Christianity and almost any other atheist or agnostic reading this.

The upshot here is that Avalos is left playing in the sand box all by himself. Critics of this entry, if they find Avalos’s bourgeoisie posture to be cogent, must, if they are not experts in the putative fields, withhold any critique of this entry as well as refrain from heaping laudations on any possible Avalos response. Those who are not experts in the putative fields, and yet choose to comment on this entry, must also, if they are truly free thinkers, comment on the bourgeoisie posture of Avalos that disallows them to offer a critique. For if Avalos is right, then they cannot “tell whether any of [the below] is true or not.”

B. One should also pause and scratch their head at the attitude on behalf of many of the “Debunkers” concerning this entire debate, rooted in history as it is. On the one hand, many “Debunkers” were seen whooping and hollering at the (alleged) “smack down” that Triablogue received at the hands of posters like Evan and Avalos. On the other hand, there is no such thing as a “Debunker” who has been critical of Loftus’s latest book, Why I Became an Atheist. The number of existents in the set of “Debunker-cum-Loftus-critic” is the same number as the number of existents in the set of unicorns. The reason this is odd, I say, is because of John Loftus’s attitude toward history in that book. What is even more interesting is that Avalos writes one of the “Advanced Praise” blurbs on the back!

What is Loftus’s attitude toward history? What have fellow “Debunkers” committed themselves to by swallowing Loftus’s book, seemingly just as frightened to critique and find problems in it as the backwoods, hick fundamentalists they mock are too frightened to critique any of their preacher’s take on the Bible? What is the position of the book Avalos offers “praise” for, and the leader of the blog he signed up to be a part of regarding matters historical? Simply put, says Loftus, “Historical evidence is poor evidence” (Loftus, 181). Citing Bebbington he claims, “The historian’s history is molded by his values, his outlook, and his worldview. It is never the evidence alone that dictates what was written” (Loftus, 183). He doesn’t “see any problem in claiming that there is room for doubting many if not most historical claims…” (Loftus, 192, emphasis mine, he adds the qualifier “especially claims about the miraculous,” but that is irrelevant for my purposes here).

So is all of the “massive historical evidence” Avalos brought to bear on us, “poor evidence?” Does Avalos offer “solid evidence” or evidence mixed with his "values, outlook, and worldview?” Does Avalos admit that it is never “evidence alone” that dictates his acceptance of a position as “historical?” Is Avalos a postmodern historian? If so, why did he claim that, “We minimalists will only declare something historical when we find actual evidence for it.” If Loftus is right, Avalos is wrong…or at least wrong-headed. Or, given his “praise blurb” on the back of the book, did Avalos mean to say: “We minimalists will only declare something historical when we find actual evidence for it, and it conforms to our values, outlook, and worldview, for it is not evidence alone that dictates whether something is veridical history, it‘s a whole mixture of subjective and objective”?

The upshot here is that if Loftus is right, and it appears that to the “Debunkers” he is since they only offer cult-like praise, the “Debunkers” need to tone down the laudatory comments about how Avalos tanned our hide. Unless they mean that Avalos is making good historical points as long as you accept his values, outlook, and worldview. As long as you admit that, it isn’t his evidential points alone that are determinative of what is solid history in this case. However, if this outlook is the case, then it rather undercuts Avalos’s claims about our not being fellow experts in the putative fields! For we would also need to hold to Avalos’s subjective and postmodern takes on the evidence! It could not be just that we are not experts, then, that is determinative of whether we can judge whether the claims of the various experts are true or not.

Avalos can’t be tanning our hide, then. The initial question up for debate was whether the Moses story was based on the Sargon Legend. Any and all historical evidence Avalos &c brought to bear, is just, as Loftus puts it, “poor evidence” on which to believe the claim, “the Moses story was based on the Sargon Legend.” So I find it odd indeed that the “Debunkers” have been such faithful advocates of an objective and optimistic use of history and historical evidence. However, if Loftus is correct, why think the “poor evidence of history,” dripping with your subjective influences and unable to escape the grip of postmodern deconstruction, is sufficient to undercut the Christian’s claims about what happened in Exodus 2? I mean, we load our history with our own values, outlook, and worldview. Avalos just isn’t playing our language game, then. In addition, we’re not playing his. “Objective” evidence and facts are out the window. It seems we can only do what Wittgenstein said when players in different games get into a heated discussion, point your finger at the other man, call him a heretic, go home, and forget Brian Lewis’s study…

III. Dating

“They cite Lewis through another source, and do not address the direct quote I have from Lewis where he leaves the Legend of Sargon’s composition open to a wider range of dates. Apparently, Triablogue writers cannot afford to buy the book or find a library with the book.” - Hector Avalos
This is what Lewis says and what Avalos is referring to:

"Only the extreme limits of the possible date of composition can be determined with confidence. The Sargon legend had to be composed after 2039 and before 627 B.C....Nevertheless, a date of origin between the thirteenth and eighth centuries seems likely on the basis of internal evidence such as the use of idiomatic expressions that are first attested in the royal inscriptions of the Middle and Neo-Assyrian Kings" (Lewis, 273, emphasis mine).
Lewis bases the terminus post quem for the text because the term “strong king” has its first known occurrence “in the eighth regional year of Amar-Sin (2039) of the Third Dynasty of Ur and thus follows by 240 years the end of Sargon’s rule.” The terminus ante quem is 627 due to the latest “copies” (though the use of this term presupposes that 627 is not the terminus ante quem since an autograph isn’t a copy, Lewis should have said “text“ so as to avoid begging any questions) we have being found in the “library of Assurbanipal” (cf. Lewis, 98).

However, Lewis does not think the Legend was written in 2039 (it’s just “in theory,” Lewis, 98), he thinks it “likely” that it was written “between the thirteenth and eighth centuries” (Lewis, 273). In fact, Lewis seems a bit inconsistent here. He thinks the 13th-8th century BC date likely “on the basis of internal evidence such as the use of idiomatic expressions that are first attested in the royal inscriptions of the Middle and Neo-Assyrian Kings." But didn’t he set the terminus post quem for the Legend at 2039 because the term “strong king” has its first known occurrence “in the eighth regional year of Amar-Sin”?

According to Lewis, “Three idiomatic expressions … are attested only in the late Middle Assyrian or neo-Assyrian periods” (Lewis, 100). Therefore, Lewis correctly notes, the occurrence of these expressions “provide the strongest available evidence that the Sargon Legend was composed in its present form at a much later date than previously thought. An idiom compound of belu and saparu … is first attested in the royal inscriptions of the Neo-Assyrian kings, Aassurnasirpal II (883-859), Sargon II (721-705), and Sarandon (680-669).” So why wasn’t the terminus post quem set at 883 if the previous terminus post quem was set at 2039 for the exact same reasons Lewis offers for a late date? Indeed, why would Avalos postulate anything past a date of 883 for the Legend given his minimalism? Didn’t he proudly tell us that, “We minimalists will only declare something historical when we find actual evidence for it”? And so how can you declare a date before 883 B.C. “historical” when you have not “found actual evidence for” the use of those idioms before 883 B.C? Didn’t Avalos say of Moses: “The Moses story appears in manuscripts no earlier than the 2nd-3rd centuries BCE. We have NOTHING about Moses before this” (emphasis his)? And so likewise: “The [idioms] appears in manuscripts no earlier than 883 BC. We have NOTHING about [the idioms] before this” (emphasis his).

In line with the above, we must ask Avalos to be further consistent in his reasoning. I don’t even need to be an expert here. Wasn’t it Avalos who told us: “If Triabloguers had read The End of Biblical Studies, they would realize that some arguments are based on simple logic, and they don’t require more than a good logical mind to examine them. No other expertise is always required”? Now, I admit that I have not read Avalos’s book, but it seems one could “realize that some arguments are based on simple logic, and they don’t require more than a good logical mind to examine them,” without having read Avalos’s book. Certainly some critical thinking books would serve this area too, no? And so we can thank Avalos for conceding that I can inspect his reasoning while also dismissing the antecedent of his conditional as nothing but a shameless, self-serving plug for his book.

One aspect of Avalos’s reasoning comes into play when we take what he says about the similarities between Moses’ birth and the distilled exposed-hero motifs, and what Lewis says about the similarities between the reign of Sargon II and what we find in the Legend. Avalos writes,

“In judging literary dependence, one must address these parallels listed by Lewis (The Sargon Legend, p. 255):

I. Explanation of abandonment
II. Noble birth
III. Preparation for exposure
IV. Exposure
V. Nurse in an unusual manner
VI. Discovery and Adoption
VII. Accomplishment of the hero

The Sargon and Moses story share ALL elements except number V (Sargon legend lacks this). Of course, there are differences, but one must ask the likelihood that two people independently would experience six of seven events in this sequence. One could say it was coincidence, but this is statistically improbable.”
Though I will address literary dependency below, my purpose here is to point out “similarities between the Sargon Legend and the career of Sargon II that might suggest a possible connection” (Lewis, 105). Lewis mentions four similarities between the career of Sargon II and what we find in the Legend. The third point is broken up into three sub-points, and so we could count six similarities. The similarities are:

I. In the legend, Sargon conquers Tilmun. Prior to Sargon II’s mention of Tilmun, the only known occurrence of Tilmun in Assyrian royal inscriptions comes during the reign of Tukulti-Ninurta I. However, this “probably reflects no more than a vague awareness of Tilmun’s ancient ties to Mesopotamia. It is only in Sargon II that we have hard evidence of a resumption of diplomatic contacts with Tilmun. Interestingly, the tradition that Sargon conquered Tilmun is attested in a Neo-Assyrian text, the Geographical Treatise, which may have originated during the period of Sargon II” (Lewis, pp.105-6, also see n.78, p.120).

II. In the Legend Sargon captured Der, Sargon II won a victory at Der over the Elamites (Lewis, 106).

III. There is the use of two idioms in the Legend and the concept of using copper sticks to build roads through rocky terrain. I discussed the idioms above; the cutting through mountains with copper and bronze sticks is mentioned in inscriptions of first millennium B.C. kings, including Sargon II. Interestingly, the name of Sargon II pops up in connection with something in the Legend and its only being found in first millennium B.C. inscriptions quite frequently. In fact, Sargon II has much more in common with what we find in the Legend than does even Sargon I, closer in time to the original Sargon of the Legend (cf. Lewis, p.104). So, Sargon II inscriptions use idioms and mention his cutting roads through mountains that are also found in the Legend (Lewis, 106).

IV. In the Legend, Sargon founds his own city (Agade), so does Sargon II (Dur Sarrukin) (Lewis, 106).

And so, “Of course, there are differences, but one must ask the likelihood that two people independently would experience six of these events. One could say it was coincidence, but this is statistically improbable.”

The impression one gets from reading Lewis is that the best arguments are for a late date (see especially pp. 99-101), and that the question of “why was the text written?” which “would go a long way to solving the problem of dating” seems to be that, again, the best arguments favor that it was written during the reign of Sargon II as a “product of his later years. The most likely motive would be to glorify Sargon II by showing that he was a worthy successor to Sargon of Akkad. At the same time, this would help to explain the selective lists of exploits attributed to the Akkadian king in the Legend, for at least some of these correspond to the actual experiences of Sargon II” (see Lewis, pp. 104-107). Of course there is nothing here that “in themselves proves the case” (Lewis, 106, emphasis mine), but that (italicized) multifarious term is quite ambiguous and means little, especially in the context of historiography. There is certainly nothing like a sound deductive argument, but there is a fairly good cumulative case argument. It is certainly reasonable, given the evidence and arguments, to see Sargon II as the era of composition for the Legend.

I am not alone in this reading of Lewis. There is Mark Brettler. Brettler's aim is to show that much of the claims of the Old Testament are "inaccurate or untrue." He aims to show that Israel was influenced by other sources (see back flap). So, this isn't a "conservative" scholar. He's more-so on Avalos's side. Brettler states: "A likely case is the Sargon birth legend, concerning Sargon of Akkad, but probably written under Sargon II; see Brian Lewis: The Sargon Legend: A Study of the Akkadian Text and the Tale of the Hero who was Exposed at Birth, esp. 99-107..." (Brettler, 180, n.84). In addition, Millard: “Some scholars suggested that the story was written to glorify him. Indeed, a few scholars still maintain this position…Gaston Maspero supposed that the Legend of Sargon projects the deeds of Sargon II into a remote past and says nothing about an earlier king (The Dawn of Civilization [London: SPCK, 1885]), p. 599. See Lewis, Sargon Legend, pp. 101–107, for a similar view.”

The late date arguments also better fit in with Avalos’s stated minimalism. The very claims he’s made about minimalism, evidence, Moses, the dependency of Moses on the Sargon Legend, etc., require him, if he is to be consistent, to assign a late date to the legend. Indeed, given that in his liberalism he would like to give Exodus as late a date as possible, if he accepted some of Lewis’s arguments for an early date he would also have to do the same for the birth story of Moses! Avalos has tried to make much hay of the ana ittisu law codes allegedly found to be operating in the story of Moses’ birth. He states, “In deciding whether an Egyptian or a Mesopotamian origin for the Moses wet-nurse was more likely, I cited a parallel with the Sumerian-Akkadian ana ittishu legal texts.” The point here is that Lewis includes the fact that the Sargon foundling adoption follows closely the foundling adoption laws outlined in the lexical series ana ittisu as an argument for an early date for the Legend. However, if Exodus is assigned a late date even with the inclusion (so says Avalos, this point is debated. See e.g., Enns, p.63) of ana ittisu laws, why can’t the Sargon Legend?

It’s also not clear that Avalos was entirely forthcoming with what we see in Lewis. At any rate, the Christian can reasonably hold that Exodus was written before the Legend of Sargon since he can be both reasonable in holding to an early date for Exodus and a late date for the Sargon Legend. In this case it would be impossible that Exodus was dependant upon Sargon. But, it is still possible that the Legend was written before Exodus; even so, that would not be enough for dependency. “Before, therefore, dependant,” doesn’t seem like a good inference. Indeed, it’s a non-sequitur. At this point, we can look at the specific arguments for dependency and what Lewis has to say in this regard. I suggest Avalos will again be seen to have been quite selective in his appeal to Lewis, easy to do when dealing with an out of print book, with sparse copies running around $100.

IV. Dependency

As I said above, one needs the Sargon Legend to predate Exodus to get off an argument for dependency. Though mere priority is not sufficient to establish dependency, it is necessary. Avalos realizes this and in the process of trying to establish early dates for the Legend, he makes some interesting claims. For example, he makes this statement: “The Sargon legend is in actual manuscripts from the seventh century BCE. We can trace crucial elements of this legend hundreds (or even thousands) of years before that.”

This is an odd claim on several fronts. First, (the historical, original) Sargon existed in the 24th and 23rd centuries BC. But according to Avalos, we have “crucial elements of [Sargon] hundreds (or even thousands) of years before … the seventh century BCE.” And given that Avalos says we can apply logic to his arguments without being an expert in ANE history and language, I’ll also assume he will allow the little people to use elementary mathematics in analyzing his claims, all without being an expert in ANE history and language of course. So when you add “thousands of years” to “the seventh century BCE,” you come up with a terminus ante quem of the twenty-seventh century “BCE.” So in Avalos’s haste to undermine the Bible, driven by ideology as he is, he has “crucial elements” of people’s lives existing before they existed!

Second, one wonders what “crucial elements” of the Legend we have before “the seventh century BCE?” One would think the “crucial elements” we have should fit those “crucial” exposed-hero motifs Lewis details, viz., Explanation of abandonment; Noble birth; Preparation for exposure; Exposure; Nurse in an unusual manner; Discovery and Adoption; and Accomplishment of the hero. And some of these can even be removed. On page 253 Lewis himself lists “crucial elements.” The “single most important element” is the “exposure” story (Lewis, p.247). Lewis admits that most of the other “crucial elements” are not found in any earlier traditions, viz., “birth, preparation for exposure, and adoption,” (cf. 274).

Certainly mere mention of Sargon of Akkad and his reign as king, his possible association with date growers, and being beloved of Ishtar, don’t count as “crucial elements” that would provide an early date for the Legend. As Lewis himself states: “Of course the presence of old traditions in a late copy of a literary text (i.e., the Legend) does not prove that the work is as old as the material it contains.” Indeed, on this assumption Exodus is likewise earlier than the copies since it mentions demonstrably older traditions than the date of the oldest manuscripts we have!

At any rate, when one reads the summaries of the various Sargon references Lewis offers on pages 110-112, one is hard pressed to find the existence of “crucial elements” of the Legend. In addition, all that matters for purposes of dependency is if we find the existence of those “elements” Moses (allegedly) shares with the Sargon of the Legend. Lewis goes over the references to Sargon from the third millennium BC down to the first. With claims like this: “During the old Babylonian period, Sargon became the subject of Epic literature. As a consequence, his figure is more remote and impersonal. Because of the fragmentary condition of the Sargon-Lugalzagesi Legend, we cannot be completely sure of the picture it draws of Sargon” (Lewis, 110), it seems it would be an overstatement to claim that we find “crucial elements” of the Legend “hundreds and even thousands of years” before the Legend was written in the “seventh century BCE.” And what we do find are claims like this, “Enlil gave him no rival,” “Sargon overthrew Uruk,” “Sargon was calm and reflective,” “the king decides to undertake the campaign without concern for the hazardous route,” hardly inspiring confidence in Avalos’s claim that “crucial elements” of the Legend are found “hundreds and even thousands of years” before our 7th century manuscripts.

Third, Lewis does speculate about the existence of an early version of the Legend from which the author of the Legend may have drawn off. But all of this is hard to square with Avalos’s stated minimalism. Recall Avalos stated: “We minimalists will only declare something historical when we find actual evidence for it.” This is hard to square with Lewis’s qualified and tentative language. For example, the Legend “seems to be based, at least, in part, on folk traditions” (Lewis, 263, emphasis mine). But where’s the “actual evidence?” And just because the Legend is so sparse in its information of the birth and exposure account of Sargon, “this seems to suggest that the author of the Sargon Legend drew on or adapted an older, more elaborate account of the abandonment of Sargon for use in his composition” (ibid). But where’s the “actual evidence?” In response to the argument that the exposed-hero tale was adapted to Sargon at the time of the composition of the Legend (like an argument based on the good cumulative case for a Sargon II period composition in order to legitimize his reign), the response is “we think this less likely” (ibid). “Less likely” because some other “folk tales and legends have been known to arise during or soon after the life of a great hero," there is a possible awareness in the Sumerian Kings list “linking Sargon to a member of the date-growing profession,” and there seems to be an “interest in Sargon’s origins” in an early source (ibid). Not only are these not “crucial elements” (even according to Lewis, 247, 274), but where’s the “actual evidence?” Much of this is admitted speculation based on highly generalized vague references, and the fact that an early myth development (one to two hundred years) is possible. There’s no “actual evidence” because the existence of an actual folktale “prior to the composition of the Legend seems probable” (ibid). (As a side note, and as a defense of oral tradition and reliability in the Christian tradition, Lewis even claims that the original folktale may have been oral. This means that the “telephone game” must be more reliable than skeptics admit, or else there’s no point in trying to say the Legend accurately represents the original! (Lewis, 263)).

The upshot here is that Avalos’s claims about the existence of the Legend “hundreds or thousands of years” before our “seventh century BCE” text(s) is overstated in light of what Lewis claims, and is inconsistent with his stated minimalism. As Steve Hays has told us, “Avalos is a minimalist about Moses and a maximalist about Sargon.” It’s obvious that “ideology” is driving him rather than the “actual evidence.” Thus, what Avalos said in response to Hoffmeier: “That would mean that my claim about the Sargon story predating the Moses story has been vindicated by Triablogue’s own expert,” is overreaching on Avalos’s part. The only way Avalos can claim the Sargon story predates “the Moses story” is by giving Exodus a date before the “seventh century BCE.” His minimalist criterion for an earlier date for Exodus precludes him from claiming an earlier date or development of the Sargon Legend. If he accepts much of the evidence Lewis offers for an early date, that gets Exodus an earlier date. Therefore, he must take the highly liberal position on Exodus to maintain the Legend’s literary priority. Needless to say, this argument isn’t going to be very convincing or cogent to any one other than a liberal minimalist.

So much for the priority of the Legend over Exodus issue. Let’s now look at Lewis’s actual argument for dependency. Avalos’s position on dependency is vague. Says Avalos,

“I am not arguing that the Moses legend is copied directly from the Sargon legend. However, the similarities are too many to posit that two people experienced so many similar things independently. We have one reasonable explanation, and that is that there was some literary relationship, even if indirect, between these stories.”
What does “copied directly” mean? That the author of Exodus had the Legend sitting off to the left of his manuscript and copied it much like a child copies a friend’s homework assignment? That there is a one-to-one correspondence between the two? This is so absurd one has to wonder why Avalos even mentions it. Everyone, and I mean everyone, admits that there are plenty of differences between the two stories. The Exodus scribe would have to be the worst copiest ever. What does “some literary relationship” mean? Indeed, an indirect relationship? In addition, why think that we only have “one reasonable solution?” Didn’t Loftus tell us in the book Avalos offered the “praise blurb,” that “there is always the possibility that the evidence leading to different conclusions did not survive or was destroyed, especially the farther we go back in time … [there are always] several alternative conclusions…” (Loftus 192). Loftus spent much of his time arguing against the idea that some historical event happened “just the way” people said it did. Since there are always other possible ways things could have gone, Loftus feels he can reject any historical claim. He didn’t much like the “one reasonable solution” arguments from Craig, Moreland, &c. So would Avalos care to debunk Loftus’s approach to history, or is protecting the sheep and making them feel like they have good reasons to disbelieve the number one priority in atheism?

I will now turn to Lewis and see if we can shed any light on Avalos’s claims.

Lewis sees both Sargon and “the Moses story” as examples of a broader legend, “the exposed hero legend.” Lewis finds over 70 of these legends throughout history. He even includes Jesus as an example (Lewis, 164). The motifs that emerge in the exposed-hero tales are:

I. Explanation of abandonment
II. Noble birth
III. Preparation for exposure
IV. Exposure
V. Nurse in an unusual manner
VI. Discovery and Adoption
VII. Accomplishment of the hero

Not all of the stories have all of the elements. In fact, some even do not include some of the most “crucial” elements of the exposed-hero folklore, yet they are included (cf. 244). And one of them even excludes “the most crucial element of the tale-type,” exposure, yet it is still included as a type of exposed-hero tale (Lewis, 247). “Other versions … have altered the normal form of the exposure element so that it is hardly recognizable” (ibid), yet they are included. There are also thirteen other “miscellaneous details” that are not included in the core (Lewis, 250-253), yet you don’t even need to have the most crucial element(s) to be included. This seems somewhat arbitrary since a couple of the miscellaneous details have over 30 representatives. Lewis also postulates an archetype, “the Ur-form or ultimate archetype” (Lewis, 260), of the exposed-hero tales. This has less than the VII elements above, and will be discussed further below.

As Lewis notes, there are many differences between the Legend and the “Hebrew story” (Lewis, 264). Lewis lists five “innovations” on the exposed-hero motif, but there are more. For example, Sarna states, “The supposed close affinities between this folkloristic composition and our Exodus narrative are fanciful. In fact, the story of Moses’ birth departs from the Sargon legend and from the genre in general in so many significant respects that one almost gets the impression of a conscious attempt on the part of the biblical narrator to disassociate this narrative from the features otherwise characteristic of foundling hero motifs” (Sarna, 30-31).

George Coats notes another very interesting difference. Coats notes that “by having the sister watch over Moses and the mother nurse him, the family is fully present in contrast with that of Sargon’s family” (see Coats, Moses: Heroic Man of G-d, cited in Finlay, 237, emphasis mine). Therefore, this might not even be a real abandonment. What is important on this is that Lewis himself claims that the Egyptian story of Horus is “not truly a version of the exposed-hero tail” because, Horus has his mother present with him (Lewis, 265)!

Lewis also claims, “other major components of the [Horus] tale are also lacking” (ibid). And scholars like Hoffmeier, Currid, Hess, Sarna, Coats, Finlay, Enns, etc., have pointed out that major components of the Moses story are missing too. For example, many do not agree with Lewis that II is present in the Moses story. V is missing too, and with the others there may be some general agreement, but the specifics show disanalogies. For example, Lewis claims that the exposed-hero tale is a sub-type of the rags-to-riches tale. Since it is, being adopted by a commoner is probably in the original, and makes the rags-to-riches tale complete (cf. Lewis, 249). However, a princess adopted Moses. To make the general “discovery” an important feature is a bit underwhelming since it is necessary that an exposed child is discovered since if they were not there would be no rest of the story!

VII is also vague. Lewis maintains that the “accomplishments” are in some way a reference to fame or kingship. But many have noted that this is not the case with Moses. Steve Hays even mentioned this to Avalos. Hays wrote, “What about VII? Did Moses become a king? No. In fact, we have a double reversal of fortunes in Exod 2. He's spared infanticide. And he's moving up the social ladder. But then he becomes a fugitive. Moreover, Moses is even denied an opportunity to enter the Promised Land.”

For reasons like this (and there are many, many more), scholars like Finlay can note in his authoritative account of Hebrew birth stories, that “In light of the evidence, it is fair to say, that although dependence of Exodus 2 on some version of the Sargon legend is possible, it has not been definitively demonstrated” (Finlay, 238). Non-minimalists like Finlay &c claim this, why is a minimalist like Avalos not?

Continuing with Lewis’s discussion of the Exodus account and the Legend, he says that we must accept “the premise that the Hebrew author of the Moses birth legend introduced innovations to the tale of the exposed-hero” and that “[w]ere we to strip away all the obvious innovations present in the Exodus birth story, we should be left with the basic tale structure…” (Lewis, 265). The “tale structure” is the I - VII above. “After eliminating the Hebrew contributions, one finds a tale structure based on component I, II, III, IV, VI, and VII, the same pattern present in the Sargon legend and the hypothetical archetype” (Lewis, 266, emphasis mine). Even though we’ve disputed some of Lewis’s “components,” and we must point out how nice it must be to be able to slice and dice away at stories in order to get them to fit into a pre-set argument, we can see some of the problems with Avalos’s claim above.

Recall I cited Avalos as claiming:

“I am not arguing that the Moses legend is copied directly from the Sargon legend. However, the similarities are too many to posit that two people experienced so many similar things independently. We have one reasonable explanation, and that is that there was some literary relationship, even if indirect, between these stories.”
But Lewis doesn’t even claim this much! First, note that what Moses and Sargon have in common, if they do, is the structure of exposed-hero tales. This, at best, shows that, if there was dependency, it was either on the Sargon Legend or the “hypothetical archetype.” But recall that Avalos came in defending Evan, without offering so much as a critical word, who had argued that “Moses was based on Sargon.” But this isn’t even demonstrable by using Lewis. Note that Avalos claims that there is some relationship “between these stories,” i.e., the “stories” of “the Moses legend” and “the Sargon legend.” But even for Lewis, there is more than one reasonable explanation, both are based on the archetype. So Avalos misstates Lewis’s case, again.

Second, Avalos’s minimalism does not fit with what Lewis claims. Lewis goes on to say that “The author of the Moses story may have known of and been influenced by the Sargon tale…” (Lewis, 266). There’s no “actual evidence” for this. It’s conjectural. It has a lot of holes.

Third, and most devastating, Lewis claims, “Of course, the Moses birth story might just as easily have derived from an unknown version of the exposed-hero tale” (Lewis, 266, emphasis mine)! To put this concession into perspective, suppose you are a jury member at a murder trial. The prosecutor marshals all kinds of circumstantial evidence to prove that the defendant, Mr. Jones, “did it.” Then, during closing arguments, after he reiterates his case against Mr. Jones, he says, “Of course, the murder might just as easily have been committed by Mr. Smith!” Would you, as a juror, ever find the defendant guilty? So how can the reader of Lewis, especially the minimalist conclude that Moses is based on the Sargon Legend when the Moses birth story could have just as easily been based on another version of the exposed-hero tale? It’s an interesting conjecture, and that’s about it. Avalos overreaches on and misstates Lewis’s significance, again.

In order to wrap this section up I should discuss Lewis’s claim that Exodus 2 was based on at least some version of the exposed-hero tale. Though I have shown some reason to doubt this, there are many who have noted that Moses’ birth story has some commonality with other exposed-hero tales or birth-legends. So, what if Moses’ birth is based or dependant or in the same genre as an exposed-hero tale?

First, would this mean that Exodus 2 was not based on historical fact? But even Lewis himself states that “one should at least consider that in the case of Sargon or any of the other historic heroes, the popular narrative of the unusual birth may have been based on some historical fact” (Lewis, 267). So the cash value for those who want to argue for Moses’ birth being based on some prior legend, and who point us to Lewis, is that they're not establishing that what was reported was simply “myth.” So Evan overreaches Avalos’s “standard” and authoritative monograph when he claims, “I think the story of Sargon being floated in a basket of reeds down the river as an infant is a myth (that predates the Moses myth).” Again, Avalos didn’t offer any critical reaction to Evan. Moreover, it seems Avalos is of this opinion too, but then why point us to Lewis as the almighty demonstrator that Moses’ birth story was not a myth? If Avalos claims that Lewis and his arguments do not prove that Exodus 2 is unhistorical, then what did he think he was doing?

Second, we know many people who seem to fit the exposed-hero tale, yet their stories are real. For example, William Appes, abandoned by his grandmother, rescued by a commoner, and later became hero and leader to the Mashpee people. Malcolm X also has an exposed-hero story. Jean-Jacque Rousseau also fits the motif.

Third, many commentators have noted the heavy connection between Exodus and Genesis. Between Moses and Noah. Between the basket and the ark. Some of the connections are: (i) the opening words of Exodus echo Genesis at several points. Exodus 1:1 recalls Gen. 10:1; 11:27; 25:12, 19; 36:1, 9; 46:8; (ii) The increase of peoples in Exodus 1:7 brings to mind Gen. 1:28; 9:1; (iii) Both Moses and Noah are placed in an “ark” (tebah) waterproofed with bitumen; (iv) both Moses and Noah are selected to undergo a watery fate; (iv) both are vehicles through whom God “creates” a new people for his own purposes; (v) Moses’ safe passage on the Nile looks back to Noah’s safe passage, and ahead to the safe passage of God’s people through the red sea. And so just as Avalos claimed that for Moses to have those tale-types in common with Sargon was “too coincidental,” we can force him to say the same of Moses and Noah. Indeed, it is obvious that the author is trying to draw our attention to Noah rather than Sargon!

Noah may prove to be a bit more involved too. Noah fits with almost all of the elements Lewis says might be in the Ur-form, representing a more “simple” form of the exposed-hero tale. Noah was exposed, prepared for exposure, had a father listed in the royal line of descent in the Bible, was 'discovered' by God and allowed to come back on land, and had his accomplishments listed. Thus there could be a case made that argues that the story of Noah is the Ur-form. This would also have the benefit of explaining any similarities between Sargon and Moses, as both might be roughly based on the tale-type. And even Lewis mentions that further investigation might involve looking into “the relationship of the birth story vessels of Sargon and Moses to the flood story arks…” (Lewis, 276). Thus, further study on exposed-hero tales that search for literary relationship or dependency could serve to bolster the overall Christian story. Lewis and Avalos might even end up unwittingly supporting Christian history. Of course, this is all speculative on my end, but not more so than a dependence of Moses on Sargon; indeed, my hypothesis might have more to say for it than does the Legend to Exodus 2.

V. Conclusion

The Christian can see that the Sargon Legend is not as hostile to the historicity of Moses as detractors might pretend. We have seen that a case for dependency rests on highly speculative and conjectural grounds. We have seen that even if there is reliance upon an exposed-hero tale structure, this does not mean the Moses birth story is false. And we have seen that there is a possible ultimate archetype that is consistent with Christian history, even having the explanatory value of explaining any “coincidences” between Moses and the Sargon Legend in structure. We have further seen that Hector Avalos was less than forthcoming and honest about the significance of Lewis’s monograph. We even saw that in the end, according to Lewis, any objective jury in the world would declare a defendant innocent of the charges leveled at him. When all is said and done, when all the arguments for dependency upon the Legend of Sargon are brought to bear, the expert in the case claims, “it could have just as easily been based on something else."

*****

Bibliography

Brettler, Mark, The Creation of History in Ancient Israel, Routledge, 1995.

Enns, Peter, Exodus, Zondervan, 2000

Finlay, Timothy, The Birth Report Genre in the Hebrew Bible, J.C.B. Mohr, 2005

Lewis, Brian, The Sargon Legend: A Study of the Akkadian Text and The Tale of the Hero Who Was Exposed at Birth, Cambridge, 1980.

Loftus, John, Why I Became an Atheist, Prometheus, 2008

Sarna, Nahum, Exploring Exodus: The Origins of Biblical Israel, Schoken, 1996

Why we can't get along without the Magisterium—or can we?

I. Sic

I have often confided in my theological friends that if I held to the principal of sola scriptura that I would probably be a Homoiousian, or a Homoian Arian (I am Trinitarian due to Tradition, more precisely, Nicene and post-Nicene Tradition).

http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/2008/09/samuel-clarke-sola-scriptura-and.html

For example, in "mere Christianity", apart from the authority of the Church, there is no ground for an authoritative determination that Arianism is a heresy. There is just one's own interpretation of Scripture versus that of the Arian. (And don't think that heretics didn't appeal to Scripture: see here and here.) And so to find a lowest-common denominator between oneself and the Arian means that something even like "Jesus is God" must be left out of the "essentials of the faith". In this way, the "mere Christianity" position provides no authoritative determination of what exactly are those "essentials of the faith".

http://principiumunitatis.blogspot.com/2008/04/unity-and-mere-christianity.html

II. Et Non

Jesus is God: Biblical Proofs

C O N T E N T S

I. DIRECT STATEMENTS OF JESUS' EQUALITY WITH GOD THE FATHER
II. JESUS IS THE CREATOR
III. JESUS IS ETERNAL AND UNCREATED
IV. JESUS IS WORSHIPED
V. JESUS IS OMNIPOTENT (ALL-POWERFUL)
VI. JESUS IS OMNISCIENT (ALL-KNOWING)
VII. JESUS IS OMNIPRESENT (PRESENT EVERYWHERE)
VIII. JESUS FORGIVES SINS IN HIS OWN NAME
IX. JESUS RECEIVES PRAYER
X. JESUS IS SINLESS AND PERFECT
XI. THE PRIMACY OF THE NAME OF JESUS
XII. JESUS CLAIMED TO BE THE MESSIAH (CHRIST)
XIII. FIFTY O.T. MESSIANIC PROPHECIES FULFILLED BY JESUS
XIV. JESUS' SUBJECTION (AS MESSIAH) TO THE FATHER

{For many further biblical evidences see The Holy Trinity: Biblical Proofs}

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/01/jesus-is-god-biblical-proofs.html

The Holy Trinity: Biblical Proofs

C O N T E N T S

I. FORTY DESCRIPTIONS APPLIED BOTH TO GOD/YHWH AND JESUS
II. GOD/YHWH, THE MESSIAH, AND JESUS: PARALLEL PASSAGES
III. THE UNITY OF GOD AND MONOTHEISM
IV. THE HOLY SPIRIT AND/OR TRINITARIANISM
V. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON: FORTY PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES
VI. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD: DIRECT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE
VII. 13 DESCRIPTIONS APPLIED TO ALL THREE IN THE TRINITY
VIII. GOD'S APPEARANCES AS A MAN IN THE O.T. (THEOPHANIES)
IX. JESUS IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE FATHER
X. A DEFINITION OF THE TRINITY: THE ATHANASIAN CREED

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/09/holy-trinity-biblical-proofs.html

And the winner is...?

Sunday, September 21, 2008

Why Victor Reppert is a Democrat

Hippie philosopher Victor Reppert has done a post to justify his party affiliation:

http://dangerousidea.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-i-am-democrat.html

Let’s look at some of the highlights:

It would be wonderful it trickle-down actually worked, or if in particular Christians were so generous enough so that government action was not necessary. The evidence suggests otherwise.

Indeed, the evidence suggests that some professing Christians are so miserly that gov’t action may sometimes be necessary. Here’s one piece of the evidence:

Social Security was identified with Socialism when it was proposed, and it is sometimes attacked today as a Ponzi scheme. But I can't forget how much things better were for my mother and father, both political conservatives, once they started receiving it. In my childhood Medicare was attacked as Socialism, but again, it has made a huge difference to many people, including my parents.

The man who wrote this statement is a professing Christian. Indeed, a Christian apologist no less. He’s also a tenured professor.

But he wasn’t generous enough to dig into his pockets and provide for his own parents in their time of financial need. So, yes, thanks to selfish individuals like the writer in question, it may be necessary for other taxpayers to pick up the tab and do for someone else’s parents what other grown kids won’t do for their own.

Nevetheless the general principle that government should keep its filthy laws off our collective economic body seems just false, and there can't be any greater proof that what we have seen this past week. The bitter fruits of deregulation have been reaped this past week, and now one of the leading deregulators, a member of the Keating Five, wants the job of cleaning up the mess?

That’s his idea of proof? Remember this little gem from the article which Reppert posted?

“Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.”

Fannie Mae was a textbook case of the kind of a gov’t agency that Reppert was implicitly touting at the time he posted an article which showcased that very example. But now that Fannie Mae has turned into a classic, big gov’t boondoggle, Reppert cites this as, of all things, compelling proof of the need for more gov’t agencies like Fannie Mae.

And who does Reppert imagine is going to foot the bill for Fannie Mae? The taxpayer. But wasn’t Fannie Mae supposed to benefit the taxpayer?

If Reppert were a real philosopher, instead of an intellectual charlatan, he would exhibit some capacity to consider the obvious.

Let's take a look at something that was enacted in the Clinton years, the Family and Medical Leave Act, which was for the purpose of preventing companies from firing mothers who took of to have babies and spend time at home with their children before going back to work. I was pleased to see that McCain voted for this legislation, but I remember Limbaugh and other conservatives railing against it. But gee, if you're pro-life and you want women to carry their babies to term and not abort them, how can you be against this sort of legislation? Is overturning Roe all you can think of when you think about lowering the abortion rate?

Reppert is actually old enough to remember a time when a blue-collar worker could support a stay-at-home mom (and their kids) on a single income. But he’s forgotten that. If Reppert were a real philosopher, instead of an intellectual charlatan, he would question the premise. Why does a married woman and mother have to work outside the home in the first place? It wasn’t always that way. Yet that would require Reppert to give the matter a modicum of thought. But who needs to think for a living when you can be a professional philosopher instead?

I think the abortion rate will actually rise if McCain is elected and fall if Obama is elected. So pro-lifers should vote Democratic this time.

Notice that Reppert doesn’t make the slightest effort to argue for this counterintuitive claim. That’s something you’d expect from a philosopher. Is the problem that, as a tenured professor, Reppert can slack off?

In foreign affairs, again I am actually a conservative, I am very conservative about the traditional Just War theory, and skeptical of modernists who think that that its provisions are "quaint" because we live in a "post 9/11 world."

Of course, Just War theory is rather quaint. It was formulated by Augustine (a church father) and Aquinas (a medieval theologian), as well as some lesser theologians of the same vintage.

I realize that this will come as a revelation to Reppert, but military technology changes over time, and—as a result—the nature of the threat changes over time. Of course, a philosopher would appreciate that fact. But if you’re a tenured flimflam man like Reppert, it’s easier to coast to retirement.

Iraq was, in my view, a completely unjust war, and when I get in a bad mood I actually think it's a war we deserve to lose, since we invaded the country immorally to begin with.

Notice anything missing from this statement? You know, like a supporting argument? That’s something you might expect from a philosopher. Reppert is such a poseur.

I don't care what the justification is.

What a fascinating disclaimer for a philosopher to make. “I don’t care what the justification is.” If that’s his position, then why is he a Just-War theorist?

Reppert doesn’t care what the justification because he begins and ends with his invincible prejudices. “Don’t bother me with the arguments!”

BTW, notice that when Reppert is attacking our methods of counterterrorism, he poses as a Kantian deontologist—but when he’s defending the welfare state, he helps himself to utilitarian arguments.

For him, socialist ends justify socialist means, but counterterrorist ends never justify counterterrorist means. A real philosopher would attempt to be consistent. But, of course, we’re not engaging a real philosopher—we’re engaging Victor Reppert.

There are things you don't do to prisoners of war

Yet another example of what an intellectual slacker he is. Were we talking about interrogation techniques for POWs in general? No. That was never the issue.

And things you don't do to criminal defendants

Which begs the question of whether jihadis should be treated like shoplifters.

And the people we picked up off the battlefield in Afganistan should not have been put into some "neither fish nor fowl" category so that they we could do what we wanted with them.

Another assertion bereft of a supporting argument. It’s nice to be paid to be a philosopher when you don’t have to do the work of a philosopher. What did Russell say about intellectual theft?

As I’ve noted once before, Reppert came of age during the Sixties, and he shows little evidence of intellectual development since then. He’s trapped in his psychedelic timewarp. 21C Phoenix on the outside, 1967 Haight-Ashbury on the inside

So these are some of the main reasons why I am a Democrat.

I counted a lot of assertions. Where were the reasons?

A day in the life of Jason Democrat

At 11:51 PM , Jason said...

[I've not got much to comment on in this particular stanza because it is is so obviously a "YOU MUST FEAR; FEAR THE LIBERAL AND GET IN ORDER!" argument that it's hardly worth reading.

“A Day in the Life of Joe Republican” was written in an alarmist style, stereotyping Republicans. Since my piece was a satirical take-off on the original hit piece, it was written in the same style. Blame the Democrats who wrote the original.

Yet still, I'd hazard to not Jesus's teachings of the Good Samaritan when considering that attack on "illegal aliens."

i) I see you favor the allegorical interpretation of Scripture. What, exactly, does the Good Samaritan stand for in your allegorical interpretation? Is the Good Samaritan FDR or LBJ? In any case, that’s very creative exegesis.

ii) Ironically for you, the parable of the Good Samaritan emphasizes private charity and individual intervention. The good samaritan doesn’t subcontract the job to a gov’t bureaucracy.

Certainly, they (illegal aliens) don't deserve to be slotted between sex offenders…

You dishonestly quote me out of context. Was I referring to illegal aliens per se? No, I referred to them in the context of free social services. Try again.

And the obvious hyperbole of "condom-vending machines in preschool." (sic)

Yes, I use hyperbole. Remember, I’m spoofing “A Day in the Life of Joe Republican.” Hyperbole is a basic feature of satirical writing. It’s used to make a point. Sorry you’re too illiterate to appreciate the genre. You must be a product of our public school system.

Dropping the hyperbole, I can make the same point literally. The only reason liberals insist on sex-ed for little kids is to indoctrinate little kids in alternative lifestyles. Brainwashing the younger generation to accept sexual perversion as the norm.

Perhaps, though, Jason is one of those “Christians” who thinks that sodomy and bestiality are valid forms of sexual expression as long as Joe is in a committed, covenantal relationship with his canine sexual partner.

[I was totally unaware that coffee was a controlled substance. Nor is there any legislation on the books for this. Hyperbole.]

If liberals have their way, coffee will indeed be a controlled substance.

http://greenbio.checkbiotech.org/news/2008-09-12/Hawaii_County_Council_committee_wants_to_ban_genetically_modified_coffee_and_taro/

In the liberal outlook, narcotics should be decriminalized while fast food should be a controlled substance.

And, of course, I was merely using coffee to illustrate the general mentality of the liberal food police:

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/issuepage.cfm/topic/26

As usual, Jason is too dense to follow the argument.

[In 2002, a Congressional commission found that Pharmaceutical companies were spending an average of $2.5 BILLION annually, not on litigation (not even the "frivolous lawsuits") but on Direct-to-Consumer advertising.

A diversionary tactic on Jason’s part. Yes, businesses spend money to advertise their product. They advertise their product to sell their product. That’s how they stay in business. Turning a profit on the products they sell.

Before 1990, Pharms were not allowed to market direct-to-consumer. Even today, only New Zealand and the US are the ~only~ two countries (dare I say it) foolish enough to allow this practice. Do you really think that the consumer, after a 30-second viagra/cialis commercial is ready to diagnose and prescribe for himself -as opposed, perhaps, to the medical doctor with all of her years of education, training, and experience? No way, no how.

Another diversionary tactic. Whether Jason thinks that direct-to-consumer marketing is good or bad is irrelevant to the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

Oh, and I mentioned 1990; guess what else has happened since then? You got it, med costs have skyrocketed. Gotta pay for that "free-market" advertising somehow, billions of dollars are a lot to make up.

When pharmaceutical companies pass along the cost of frivolous lawsuits, that adds to the cost of medicine. So if Jason were really worried about the cost of medicine, he’d be equally worried about the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

Last note on this (for now): Do you know how expensive good lawyers are? Well, you'd best start saving, because the Pharms can afford them, many of them

If they didn’t have to fend off frivolous lawsuits, they could afford to lay off some of their high-priced lawyers and thereby save the consumer the cost of having so many corporate lawyers on the payroll.

And you lawyer isn't going to get very far against them if you do get sick/maimed/killed from their drugs, let-alone if it was a "frivolous lawsuit."]

Notice Jason’s bait-and-switch tactic. Did I say that suing a company over defective products is frivolous? No.

Because Jason’s position is indefensible, he defends his position using dishonest tactics.

[LOL. Yeah, like unions generally allow garnishment of wages.

Jason is incapable of thinking for himself. If part of your wages is deducted for health insurance or membership in some HMO, then, yes, your wages are being garnished.

Nope. And before we assume such facts, why not offer back the supposed "lost wages" in exchange for the employees health care? I doubt there'd be many takers of that particular bargain.

Notice, too, that Jason, in his typically dishonest conduct, is disregarding my reference to “closed” shop unions, where employees have no say-so about where their money goes.

If Jason has so much faith in the popularity of unions, then he would support open shop unions where prospective employees have a choice in the matter.

BTW, liberals are also trying to deny union employees the right of the private ballot.

Oh, and on the other side of that argument (because I hear it so often from "conservatives"), what about the entrepreneurial employer who has created these jobs but really might just possibly create more but for the cost of insurance? While my mind does *almost* want to hear the violin you're playing for the employer, the fact remains that my heart isn't too fond of sweatshops.

A complete non-sequitur. If an employer doesn’t offer health insurance, that’s equivalent to sweatshop labor? Only a brain-dead liberal could segue from the one to the other.

Here’s a little history lesson for Jason: when I was growing up, public school teachers didn’t have health insurance. They paid for their medical care on a fee-for-service basis. Is that equivalent to sweatshop labor? Either way, it comes out of your earnings.

In another WWJD-moment: Does the master owe no duty to the servant? Who is in the better position to bear the burden? Honestly, if the cost of supporting employee health becomes too great, then the risks are too high -and that is an injurious or insolvent industry.]

Poor little Jason can’t think outside the box. Health insurance isn’t cost-effective. To stay in business, an insurance company has to take in more than it pays out.

If people can’t afford health care, they can’t afford health insurance either. Health insurance doesn’t make health care more affordable. It doesn’t drive down the costs. Indeed, it contributes to the rising cost of medical care. It’s just a shell game.

Jason illustrates the principle that a sucker is born every minute. Is the employer bearing the burden? If it’s withheld from your paycheck, then the employee is bearing the burden. How stupid do you have to be not to figure that out? (Answer: stupid enough to be a liberal.)

And casting the issue in slave/slave master terms is an unwittingly revealing admission about the welfare state.

[Waitaminute.... now you're attacking "limited liability laws?" I thought just a few paragraphs back the argument was against too many damaging lawsuits?... No. You wouldn't make that mistake. Nobody could flip-flop so fast that it looks like they're lying or confused...]

Yet another example of Jason’s bait-and-switch tactic. Did I say I was opposed to “damaging” lawsuits? No, I said I was opposed to “frivolous” lawsuits? Is “damaging” synonymous with “frivolous”? Not according to the dictionary.

Either Jason is lying or confused.

[Really? That's the argument? The Kyoto Protocol REQUIRES 36 countries to reduce their emissions. It does NOT, by any means or interpretation, cause other countries to contaminate to make-up or exceed that loss -honestly... where do this completely irrational distractors come from?

Another diversionary tactic. Did I deny that the Kyoto Protocol requires some countries to reduce their admissions? No. To the contrary, it clamps down on successful countries like the US while allowing third world countries like India and China to pollute the environment to their heart’s content.

If Jason had an honest argument for his position, he wouldn’t resort to so many sophistries.

Oh, wait... Bush? Yes, I do think I remember that. So, they're masters of lies (*ahem,* 'WMD's in Iraq?',

Yet another diversionary tactic. Notice how he manages to segue from Kyoto to WMD. Because he can’t defend his own position, he changes the subject.

Since, however, he introduces the red herring of the Iraq war, how is that supposed to be an argument for the Democrat Party? Here’s a partial list of Democrats who voted to authorize the Iraq war:

Bayh
Biden
Cantwell
Clinton
Daschle
Dodd
Edwards
Feinstein
Harkin
Hollings
Kerry
Landrieu
Lieberman
Reid
Rockefeller
Schumer
Torricelli

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&vote=00237&session=2

Pro-Life [seen any change on the Roe v. Wade front? Me neither, but I'm pretty sure that was a platform.], etc. ad nausea... -please don't fall into their influence.

i) Is he playing dumb, or is just plain dumb? A prolife platform doesn’t overturn Roe v. Wade. Only SCOTUS can overturn SCOTUS. And the only way for SCOTUS to overturn Roe v. Wade is for a conservative president to nominate conservatives whom a conservative Congress will confirm to the high court.

ii) And, of course, this is yet another diversionary tactic on Jason’s part. What does Roe v. Wade have to do with Kyoto? Nothing. Because Jason can’t win the argument, he has to change the subject to distract the reader from his losing streak.

Oh yes, and before you get all worked-up that I linked to wikipedia above, remember: Palin uses it. (Try not to get too distracted by her pretty picture on the site.)]

Thanks for illustrating your liberal sexism. I guess it’s okay to be a male chauvinist pig as long as you’re a liberal male chauvinist pig. It’s quite revealing how the Palin nomination has smoked out the real attitudes of the liberal establishment.

[Again; more hyperbole. Here's Mrs. Bush pointing-out that malaria was long-ago eradicated in the U.S.]

Yes, “long-ago.” Long before environmentalists were banning the use of pesticides.

[I'm sure that the kid with the matches had nothing to do with it. But, to address the argument as made, it's from a recent National Geographic article I think... Yeah, I read that one. I remember that it pointed-out that we keep putting ourselves in harm's way by moving right up to the edges of the forest. Good thing we don't allow the gov't to regulate that, huh?]

Notice how he spends a lot of time ducking the issue. When environmentalists refuse to thin forests, does that, or does it not, contribute to forest fires?

[Waitaminute... I must be reading this wrong, or it's happening again... Is this another flip-flop?
Public Transport = Good, because dad loved it.
Private Transport = BAD, cars and highways have ruined our "magnificent" option.
ergo
Public Transpot = BAD.
What???!


Since Jason suffers from liberal brain atrophy, let’s spell it out for him:

Once upon a time we had a private railway system. That was destroyed by the Federal highway system.

Was I referring to private transport, viz. cars? No, I was referring to public roads (e.g. Federal highway system).

Jason has his wired crossed. It would take an electrician to sort out his hopeless confusion.

Now that's two times... I'm starting to wonder. What was it Bush said? I think I might turn to him for guidance here. Oh, yeah... "Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again." Nope. That didn't help. That didn't help at all.

i) Another diversionary tactic. Did I say anything about Bush? No.

And why does he constantly single out Bush on the Iraq war. Does poor little Jason suffer from amnesia? What about all the high-profile Democrats who voted for the war resolution?

ii) Oh, and remember all the Congressional Democrats who ran and won (in 2006) on an anti-war platform, promising to end the war if they were elected or reelected. Did they keep their campaign promise? No.

What about Obama? Has he sponsored a bill to pull the plug on the Iraq war? No.

So, yes, I’m starting to wonder. How many times can liberal politicians play a party line Democrat like Jason for the fool? Doesn’t seem to be any threshold to his boundless credulity.

[If they find the corporate tax-system, *ahem*, "usurious," then they could always incorporate as an LLC, and maybe even an LLP. Seriously, this statement shows a distinct lack of understanding of either A) corporate codes, or B) the word "usurious." It sounds more like the argument was provided by one of those "corporate-types." Again, they're sending-out pawns to do their dirty-work on the basis of misrepresentations and fear.

I realize that Jason suffers from liberal dementia, but when you tax a corporation, who pays? The corporation? In the end, doesn’t the consumer pay? The corporation simply passes the tab along to the consumer. What is it about the liberal mentality that it can’t see the obvious starting itself in the face?

As for "overregulation," (sic) weren't we just worried about "limited liability laws?" Isn't that a form of government regulation? Yep, it is. Must be a mistake. Another one.]

Another bait-and-switch. Is “regulation” synonymous with “overregulation”? No. Should we attribute Jason’s illiteracy to the fact that he received a social promotion in public school?

[No. It doesn't work this way. How many people do you know enjoying the high-life in Aspen on worker's comp? Hyperbole -utterly ridiculous if you take just one minute to consider the assertion. Not to mention, that's a great way to show faith in your common man. Would you do this? Then again, you might -you thought of it after all.]

Worker’s comp. fraud is a widespread and easily documented phenomenon. Jason offers no factual refutation—just evasive sophistries.

[Oops. The FSLIC hasn't existed since 1989. Another baseless claim? No way... but nobody would buy this, then!]

Look, dummy, I referred to FSLIC because the original article (“A Day in the Life of Joe Republican”) referred to FSLIC. If the fact that it’s become defunct (before the original article was written) make that appeal a “false claim,” then the original article made a false claim.

[Education is well-worth the cost.

Irrelevant to whether education is overpriced.

Loans are available to all.

Irrelevant to whether gov’t loans drive up the cost of tuition. And, of course, you only take out a student loan in the first place because the tuition is unaffordable.

Oh, and I'll let you know that universities are still extremely competitive, that's why our upper-education system is the best in the world.]

Jason turns a blind eye to the obvious: if gov’t subsidizes a college education, then colleges can charge more for tuition since Uncle Sam is footing part of the bill.

[Harvard-worthy GPA and SAT? Well, then Joe is not going to "community college." If Joe had the grades and SAT to get in to Harvard, then he's there.

Demonstrably false.

If all he had was his sense of entitlement -well, then, yeah... he may well be in community college. As for the second part of that assertion: Is that racism I hear? Being from the inner-city does not make anyone less human, no more so than being a Samaritan did in Biblical times. And I'm pretty sure that G*d still doesn't smile upon racism or classism.]

i) If you’re so opposed to racism, then why are you a liberal racist? Affirmative action is a liberal white idea. It’s not designed to help blacks. Rather, it’s designed to absolve white liberals of white guilt. That’s why black conservatives opposite it. To take a few examples:

http://www.larryelder.com/racial/noaffirmative.htm

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2637

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2340

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060899.asp

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3010426.html

Shelby Steele, White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era.

Do you think that Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, and Shelby Steele (to name a few) are racists?

Affirmative action is inherently racist since it assumes that certain minority groups can’t make it on merit alone.

ii) And let’s not forget that affirmative action pits one minority group against another. It discriminates against Asian-Americans because Asians are too successful for their own good.

[Alcoholism is a disease but it is NOT a defense for driving under the influence. Not in any state in the union. Don't drink and drive.]

I’m taking the liberal position to its logical conclusion. Of course, liberals are illogical, so I wouldn’t expect Jason to follow the argument.

[Awww... there's that bucolic countryside again. Damn those highways! Let's go back to public transport and REGULATE cars! Oh, wait... I think we know where that argument goes. Shoot.

Since Jason is such a dull boy, we have to explain the obvious to him: I’m responding to the liberal on his own grounds. “A Day in the Life of Joe Republican” is a heavy-handed attempt to parody the conservative outlook.

I, personally, don’t have to oppose public highways to answer the liberal on his own grounds. Nowadays it would be impossible to create the Federal highway system since deep green liberals would oppose the project with a slew of environmental impact statements.

Okay, what about this next part: "Urbanites" are evil. I keep hearing this. We had "inner city students" taking over Harvard from the more-deserving. Now we've got "urbanites" overunning the countryside. City-dwellers are really scary, apparently. Really? Why? Got any family or friends in the city? Are they pretty evil? By the way, as of 2005 80% of Americans reside in "cities or suburbs." That's a lot of evil. Oh my, it seems that 79% of Americans are Christian. Uh-oh.]

Once again, Jason is too obtuse to realize that I’m merely answering the liberal on his own terms. It’s liberals who traditionally attack “white flight” from the inner cities to the suburbs. They insinuate that “white flight” is racially motivated. I’m merely responding in kind.

[Yeah, wax candles are pretty quaint. But they can make the long-nights studying for that Harvard education rather brutal. By the way, how was this message composed and sent, anyway? Oh, wait, yeah... computers. Best get your quill ready if you're arguing for the end of electricity.]

Once again, Jason is too dim to realize that I’m merely answering the liberal on his own grounds. I don’t have a problem with modern technology.

But there’s a tension between technology and environmentalism. That’s a problem for liberals, not for me.

[I'm pretty sure that this is still ostensibly a free country, and that we can invest in any "compound interest-bearing account" that we choose.

Another deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote. When Jason can’t make an honest case for his liberal party affiliation, he’s tacitly admitting that his position is indefensible.

What was I referring to? In context, I was explicitly referring to the privatization of Social Security, which liberals oppose.

But we do need to choose to do so. Too bad you're not doing that but instead you're complaining. Funny thing too, what you're now pining for was initiated by Franklin Roosevelt, a democrat, as part of the "New Deal." I'm not sure that there was EVER a more liberal program in the United States. Shucks.]

Jason is such a dimwit. Was I pining for Social Security? No. I was plugging the privatization of Social Security, which is the antithesis of FDR’s New Deal program.

[Joe might want to get some more education then. Oh, wait, that's right. Joe's a Harvard-man (or at least, he would have been if not for "racial quotas." I'm sure he can think his way out of this one.]

Was I referring to “Joe”? No. I was referring to Joe’s “Dad.” Another example of Jason’s illiteracy. Another trophy of our public school system.

[Um... Are you actually arguing that the "wolves ate Joe's uncle's cattle?" Where's your homework? Did they eat that, too?]

I realize that Jason isn’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but here’s a newsflash for you: wolves are predators. They prey on cattle.

When wolves are classified as endangered species, or when the gov’t reintroduces wolves into areas where cattle ranchers try to eke out a living, then that’s a threat to the livestock—as well as the livelihood of the rancher. Try to do your own homework for a change.

[Uh-oh; another good for nothing animal making life hard for the workin' man. This is getting quite repetitive. Though I do find it kind of funny given the earlier attestation to life "in harmony with nature." Oh yes, and what about that nuclear plant from two examples prior... wasn't that providing the cursed evil of "electricity?"]

Once again, Jason is too thickheaded to realize that I’m merely answering the liberal on his own terms. I don’t have a problem with technology.

But today’s environmentalists would block rural electrification, since you’d have to dam rivers and cut down trees to make way for power lines.

Environmentalists oppose hydroelectric power. And Nuclear power. And coal. And oil. And shale.

[Salvation Army? Assistance? Liberal assistance! They work with alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitutes, and other "undesirables of society!" Liberals! Christians! Liberals! Christians! Oh, my... I think they're both. What do we do with them?]

Notice, once more, Jason’s dishonest tactic of switching terms. Does the Salvation Army represent “liberal assistance?” No. It represents private Christian charity.

[That's right; make a servant-labor argument justify encouraging Life. This is just messed-up.]

I’m drawing attention to a basic, internal tension in liberal ideology: on the one hand, liberals favor a welfare state with generous benefits for retirees. On the other hand, liberals favor population control via abortion—which reduces the workforce needed to prop up the welfare state.

Is that my own prolife argument? No. But I can critique a position on internal grounds. Of course, it requires a modicum of intellectual sophistication of appreciate that line of argument, which is why such an argument is lost on a liberal airhead like Jason.

[Wow. The "liberals" sure sound like they're having fun! So, it was the "liberals" who came into your home and taught your family it's values?

No, they do that through compulsory public education.

Weren't there dinner-hours? Weren't there Saturday afternoons? Wasn't there Sunday School and Church?

If liberals had their way, they’d criminalize Christian education as hate-speech. And they’re trying their damnedest to shut down the homeschooling movement.

No, no, the failures are clearly not your own -they're "the liberals" fault! Oh, by the way, can you point me to where the liberals have published this mandate to escape the "onerous burden of caring for the elderly parents?" I have GOT to read that.

To take one example, remember when Dick Gephardt was complaining about how his elderly mom couldn’t afford to pay for her medications? Gov’t should pay for her medications. It didn’t even occur to him that he himself should dig into his own deep pockets and provide for his own mother’s expenses.

[Phew. I don't know if this diatribe counts as involuntary euthanasia. I think you may be being a bit too hard on yourself.]

Notice how Jason trivializes the very real threat of involuntary euthanasia. The movement is incremental. And it’s making headway. It’s been documented by bioethicists like Wesley J. Smith, viz. Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America; Forced Exit: Euthanasia, Assisted Suicide, and the New Duty to Die.

[Yes, and what of the "liberals" who have fought, and died, for their country?

You mean, back when we had the draft? When soldiers were serving against their will? What about draftees who burned their draft cards and took part in anti-war protests? I lived through that era.

What about those fighting right now?

What about it? Don’t liberals assure us that young people sign up, not because they’re patriotic, but because military service is the last-ditch resort fo’ po’ folks that done lack all dem economic options? How did John Kerry put it? "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

US Troops serving abroad have contributed Six-Times as much to the Obama campaign as to McCain.

Of course, that’s a rubbery statistic since it’s based on a miniscule sampling.

Anyway, if we’re to believe what liberals say about the real motives for military service, then why wouldn’t most soldiers prefer a dovish, peacenik candidate like Obama? After only, they only joined the armed forces for supplemental income or free tuition.

What about those who have fought for us in the past for our glory and independence? How about retired Air Force General Merrill McPeak.

And do retired generals support Obama over McCain by 6-1?

And Obama has said, time-and-again, he doesn't oppose all wars, just "dumb wars, rash wars," and wars fought to distract us from real issues that cause real deaths. Does that sound like a call for disarmament? Does that sound like a, ahem, again, "commie lefty?"

He says he supports “aggressive diplomacy.” Sounds pretty commie lefty to me.

BTW, I lived through the era when liberals were clamoring for unilateral disarmament.

We are so concerned over abortion of infants, as well we should be, but what about the effective abortion of our young men and women over falsified reports of WMD's?!

Who do you think falsified these reports, anyway? Many individuals vouched for Saddam’s WMD program. Did George Tenet (DCI under Clinton and Bush) falsify the reports? Did James Woolsey (another Clinton DCI)? Did Scott Ritter, before he flip-flipped? Did Richard Butler (of UNSCOM)? Did David Kay (of UNSCOM)? Even Hans Blix was surprised by the absence of WMD in Iraq.

You need to stop getting your info from reruns of the X-Files.

BTW, what about the recent discovery of 1.2 million lbs. of yellowcake in Iraq?

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGU4NTFiMzczNTdjYWQ4MjI2NTg4ODUxMzRiN2RhZjE=

As Christians, we have a compulsion to save all human life.

No we don’t. For example, we have a moral compulsion to execute murderers, rapists, and career criminals.

Obama is also, like you and I, against abortion.

That’s a bald-faced lie. He never met an abortion he didn’t embrace. He even opposed the Born Alive Act.

But he also knows that overturning Roe v. Wade is not in the power of the Executive, and he's not going to lie to you about that.

Jason is being duplicitous. The next president will be in a position to nominate one or more justices to SCOTUS. Depending on the judicial philosophy of the nominee, that’s a way of either retaining or overturning Roe v. Wade.

If it was in the power of the President, why didn't Bush overturn it? He's had eight years.]

Are he playing dumb, or is he just plain dumb? Bush can only undermine Roe v. Wade when vacancies on SCOTUS open up and he can nominate a conservative replacement.

[LOL. Gotta suspect anyone but FoxNews, huh? Yeah, that's trustworthy -only get your news from one source.]

Since I never referenced FoxNews, you’re burning a straw man.