JESUS
“(37) “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would have none of it! (38) Look, your house is left to you desolate! (39) For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’”” (Matt 23:37–39)
“They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led away as captives among all nations. Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)
JAMES
“(14) Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. (15) The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written, (16) ‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it” (Acts 15:14–16; Cf. Acts 1:6–7).
PAUL
“(25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. (26) And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. (27) And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”” (Rom 11:25–27)
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
ReplyDeleteEph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
"...to unite all things in him,..."
Well, until then, we wait!
Just think, some will grow old and pass to be ever-present with the Lord, thereafter!
One man reasoned that he wanted to pass alone and not at the time of the end when, ....then, ....because?
Because if he died at the same time with all those others, the multitudes, he felt he wouldn't get any one on one time with the Lord, then! :)!
Even so, as the Apostles Paul and John:
1Co 16:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come!
...
Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
Alan, you should bold "After this" in the middle passage quote.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Yet none of these passages say anything explicit about a future salvation of national Israel. E.g., Luke 21:24 says nothing about events any time after "the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." Similarly, read Acts 15:16 in context. James (not Peter) was clearly speaking of those days in the first century of bringing salvation to the Gentiles, not some far distant future time, when he references "rebuild[ing] the tabernacle of David." He continues, "So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things." It a messianic reference.
ReplyDeleteOne can certainly eisegete all of them to say something ala dispensationalism.
those verses seem clear on a future spiritual salvation for Jewish people; but none of those passages, nor any other passage in the NT says that the Jews must be in the land of Israel for that to happen.
ReplyDeleteTom,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction. It is James not Peter.
As far as your objection about Luke's text, Bock makes a few good points:
(1) [that] the city's fall is of limited duration; (2) [that] there is a period in God's plan when Gentiles will dominate, which implies that the subsequent period is of a different nature....' and (3) [that] Israel's judgment now but vindication later suggests what Paul also argues in Romans 1:25–26: Israel has a future in God's plan."
In terms of Acts 15:16, I disagree with you on the context. James is explaining the phenomenon of God choosing a people from the Gentiles, but affirming that when Christ returns God will restore Israel."After these things" is an modification of "in that day" in Amos 9:11; so James is teaching that David's restoration will follow the taking a people from the Gentiles a name for himself.
Ken you said, "nor any other passage in the NT says that the Jews must be in the land of Israel for that to happen."
That would be redundant for Jewish writers to make explicit statements that Jews would be in the land of Israel. That is a forgone conclusion. They are not going to have their abode in Bermuda! Besides, Luke 21:24 indicates this given that Jerusalem is in Israel.
These quotes seem like question-begging to me, especially the quote from Bock.
ReplyDelete"X will happen until Y" may, or may not, imply that something different to X will happen after Y. The intention of the statement is to focus on X; implications of something different to X are possible but not necessary.
"Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" could also mean that the trampling will not end - it will continue as long as the times of the gospel being preached to the nations continues. What happens after the gospel finishes being preached? There is nothing in the text itself to prefer the answer "the gospel has a massive success amongst the non-Gentiles" over the answer "Christ returns and ushers in the final judgment".
Likewise, "A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in" can mean that there will never be a time when the partial hardening of national Israel ends; it will (except for the elect remnant) continue as long as the Gentiles are being called in, i.e. until the return of Christ. I'd argue that's more consistent with the context in Romans 9-11.
If the word "until" is in itself a hint in one direction over the other, then...
- Jude 6 teaches that the fallen angels will be released from their chains after the final judgment.
- Likewise 2 Peter 2:9 is telling us the unrighteous won't be punished after the day of judgment.
- 1 Timothy 6:14 tells Timothy that it's OK to break the commandment and be reproached after the Christ's appearing.
- Acts 8:40 tells us that after arriving at Caesarea, Philip did not preach the gospel again.
Let me repeat my point; until *can* carry this meaning, but the way it's presented here is begging the question, as if it *must* (or, hedging one's bets, suggests it) is going beyond what is written.
That would be redundant for Jewish writers to make explicit statements that Jews would be in the land of Israel. That is a forgone conclusion.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that?
On that logic, why would Paul or Jesus quote anything from OT; that would be redundant. But they did quote.
Also, it seems that Israel would be scattered from the land. 70 AD and 135 AD historically show this, as fulfillment of Matthew 23:36-24:1-3, 24:15.
I Kings 4:20-25 seems to be the fulfillment of the land promises with the exact borders that was promised in Genesis 15:18; and in the NT, Hebrews 11-13 (11:10; 13-14; 11:16; 12:22-23; 13:14) and Gal. 4:26 equate the land with heaven. Rev. 21-22 also.
Thanks for posting these passages!
ReplyDeleteImmensely helpful!