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Sunday, May 02, 2010

The temptation of Adam

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the man, There is no logical impossibility in the hypothesis that this garden didst spring into being but a few days ago. Yea, there is no logical impossibility that thou sprangest into being but a few hours ago.

And the man said unto the serpent, As a matter of fact, Snakey, I verily didst spring into being but a few hours ago!

Then the devil leaveth him and said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

16 comments:

  1. I wanted to email you but I couldn't find an email.

    I have two questions:

    1. What would you tell someone who accepts the arguments for Christianity, but still can't believe. They agree with all the arguments, have no objections, want to believe, even try to live a Christian life, but at the end of the day they just don't actually believe?

    2. I was wondering if you could review this video by nonstampcollector on Bible Contradictions. Actually, reviewing any videos by him would be much appreciated, but this one in particular would be helpful.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk

    Thank you for all the good work you are doing here!

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  2. That's pretty funny, Steve. As near as I can figure it, I'm Eve here, you're Adam, and the serpent is Rhology.

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  3. Zilch,

    Well, since the devil has all the best lines (as the saying goes), why don't we make you the honorary serpent?

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  4. ROBMANNING SAID:
    "What would you tell someone who accepts the arguments for Christianity, but still can't believe. They agree with all the arguments, have no objections, want to believe, even try to live a Christian life, but at the end of the day they just don't actually believe?"

    Is this purely hypothetical? In what sense does he accept them, but not believe them? Is it a lack of trust? The absence of an emotional connection?

    Of course, we can pray for such individuals. Pray that God makes the truth real to them. Places them in circumstances where they see their need for his grace.

    Unless people feel the personal relevance of the Gospel truth to their own lives, they have less incentive to believe it and trust it. So their situation is a factor.

    People also need to be immersed in a Christian environment. In the life of the community of faith.

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  5. ROBMANNING SAID:

    "I was wondering if you could review this video by nonstampcollector on Bible Contradictions. Actually, reviewing any videos by him would be much appreciated, but this one in particular would be helpful."

    There's no short, simple response to this sort of thing. He rips voices out of context, jams them together, then exclaims a "contradiction."

    He's not making a good faith effort to understand the Bible on its own terms. There are Bible commentaries that discuss these passages. And monographs on Biblical inerrancy. As well as monographs on Biblical hermeneutics.

    There's no short-cut.

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  6. STEVE HAYS: "Is this purely hypothetical? In what sense does he accept them, but not believe them? Is it a lack of trust? The absence of an emotional connection?"

    No, this is a real situation. He goes to the church and always volunteers for events, bible studies, etc.

    I think he lacks an emotional connection. He wants to believe. He acknowledges Jesus as his Lord and saviour verbally. He just says that deep down he just doesn't believe. Inside he goes "this is all for naught" even though he would like to believe and doesn't have any objections other than that.

    STEVE HAYS: "There's no short, simple response to this sort of thing. He rips voices out of context, jams them together, then exclaims a "contradiction.""

    I wasn't hoping for a short simple response! ;) I find his videos particularity challenging and he is often "quoted" by different atheist bloggers. Any response to this video or any of his other videos I think would be beneficial because I think he accurately encompasses how many people view Christianity and the Bible.

    Thank you again for all that you do!

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  7. robmanning -

    I am not sure if you are talking about NONStampcollector, or someone else. I think Hays is also confused.

    I watched the video. The guy is an atheist, period. There is not honest effort to understand the Bible. So, I don't understand your question.

    As for the atheist, those "contradictions" have been answered so many times it is frankly embarrasing to hear someone quote them as if this is earth shattering evidence against the Bible. My old Bible prof. Dr. Curtis Mitchell interacted with most of these in his introductory Bible classes back in 1971.

    Any first year Bible student, or Seminary student would be well versed in these attacks. They aren't new.

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  8. "I wasn't hoping for a short simple response! ;) I find his videos particularity challenging and he is often "quoted" by different atheist bloggers. Any response to this video or any of his other videos I think would be beneficial because I think he accurately encompasses how many people view Christianity and the Bible."

    Go into any Christian bookstore, or go on Amazon, and ask for a book on Bible Contradictions. I have used Hally's (sp?) in the past, but I understand Archer has a newer one out.

    Anyway, there are lots of books out there that can answer all your questions if you are really concerned about answers to these things.

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  9. I'm sorry for another post, but one more thing -

    I can just tell you, robmanning, that this atheist (nonstampcollector) wouldn't last 10 minutes with Manata and Hays. They would eat him for lunch.

    Read some of what these guys have done with other atheists much more knowledgeable than this guy. They're in the archives.

    Now I'm done.

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  10. For the more basic and common alleged Bible contradictions, you can often read public domain online commentaries that are centuries old.

    Here's Adam Clarke's commentary
    http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarke.htm

    Here's the Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary
    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/jamieson/jfb.toc.html

    Or
    http://www.godrules.net/library/jfbcomm/jfbcomm.htm

    Here's John Gill's commentary
    http://www.freegrace.net/gill/

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  11. ROBMANNING SAID:

    "I wasn't hoping for a short simple response! ;) I find his videos particularity challenging and he is often "quoted" by different atheist bloggers. Any response to this video or any of his other videos I think would be beneficial because I think he accurately encompasses how many people view Christianity and the Bible."

    I don't have time to produce my own transcript of a 10 min. youtube video, then respond to dozens of superficial "contradictions." Here's a brief list of some good books on inerrancy:

    http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/08/primer-on-inerrancy.html

    One can buy used copies. If one can't afford it, one can also get lending copies via one's local library's interlibrary load service.

    Same thing with commentaries.

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  12. Thanks everybody for the links and book suggestions!

    Any more comments on the other issue (the friend who doesn't believe)?

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  13. robmanning,

    Most of the alleged contradictions on that video seemed not to be too difficult. Can you name the top 5 that are giving you problems? Maybe some people who are reading/watching this blog will be willing to address them one by one.

    Also, when trying to debunk the Bible, those hostile to the Bible will often overwhelm people with a rapid machine gun firing of a list of alleged contradictions. Or when in a discussion will list them from the least problematic to the most. That way they can keep the most difficult ones for themselves to safeguard their cherished belief that the Bible is false.

    That's why it's always a good idea to ask such people to give their top 5 or 10 problems. That way, if those can be easily solved, then it would give some (at least psychological) confidence that manybe the other problems aren't difficult or troublesome either.

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  14. robmanning,

    I'm not Steve, but I hope you don't mind me piping in, even though you don't know me from Eve. It sounds like this guy's problem might be a psychological one. He might be helped by Christian counseling and, perhaps, anti-depressants. His problem might be rooted in issues from his childhood (not feeling loved by his parents for some reason or something) or it might just be biochemical. I know it sounds cliche, but that doesn't mean it should be dismissed. In any case, it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that apologetic arguments can touch.

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  15. And of course it goes without saying that he should be bathed in prayer. Obviously, that would be the case whatever the issue is. But just based on what you said, I'd be praying more for experiential knowledge for him than for intellectual conviction.

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  16. Annoyed Pinnoy: That's a good point. I'll go through the video and pick the top 3 or 5 (in my mind) and post them. I am about to go to bed, but I'll do it some time tomorrow.

    Ree: Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know if he would be willing to go to a Christian counselor but I might just bring that up with him.

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