Grace Community Church recently said the following on their church website:
We were looking forward to our normal Sunday fellowship and worship. But we have been ordered by the state authorities to limit gatherings to 250 people or less, which means we are unable to meet together.
Steve Hays has already discussed this at length in his post "MacArthur bows down to Caesar" and in his post "Regulating the size of church services".
However, I just wanted to offer a "what if" scenario. What if Grace Community Church had said something like the following instead:
We were looking forward to our normal Sunday fellowship and worship. But we have been ordered by the state authorities to limit gatherings to 250 people or less, which means we are unable to meet together in a normal way for Sunday fellowship and worship.So, instead of our normal Sunday fellowship and worship, we will do something a little bit different. We will admit the first 251 people to our Sunday fellowship and worship, but we will close our doors after this number has been reached.
One extra person on top of the state mandate is not going to significantly increase the risk of coronavirus transmission. However, what it will do is demonstrate that "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).
This is not a new position. This is what we have maintained over the years. This is in keeping in line with what our pastor John MacArthur has preached over his long and faithful ministry. As Pastor John said in a past sermon:
At the seminary, we put an article up on the seminary website about homosexuality. Within a matter of hours, we received a letter ordering us to cease and desist immediately or face a very severe lawsuit. Could we be sued for taking this position? Absolutely. Insurance companies that provide liability insurances for churches so that we’re protected against lawsuits are beginning to say, “We will not accept responsibility for lawsuits on homosexual or same-sex marriage issues.” The church is out there all on its own.Now, just to make it clear: We don’t bow down to Caesar. We bow to our king. But the faithful people didn’t bow down. The unfaithful people bowed down to idols. They bowed down to monarchs. They bowed down to godless kings. Faithful people didn’t bow down. Mordecai didn’t bow down. Daniel didn’t bow down; his friends didn’t bow down. Jesus didn’t bow down. Paul didn’t bow down.
And today, brothers and sisters in Christ, we will not bow down.
Not sure what you are trying to say. Steve is off on his criticism about this issue.
ReplyDeleteMeyu is blinded by the cult of personality
Deletemeyu
Delete"Not sure what you are trying to say. Steve is off on his criticism about this issue."
1. All I said about Steve in this particular post is that he has already discussed the issue.
2. My point is fairly simple: GCC could have had one extra person over the state-mandated 250 limit (i.e. 251 people) come to worship.
That would have satisfied concerns about the coronavirus because one extra person at a Sunday worship service wouldn't have made an appreciable difference in risk of coronavirus transmission.
At the same time, it would have satisfied Christian concerns about the state mandate vis-a-vis the church. In fact, Phil Johnson himself said: "We recognize That a decree from the governor like this COULD set a dangerous precedent...". So even Phil (and other elders) could at least understand or appreciate some of the concern Christians might have over this.
We would have to cross that bridge when we get there. Romans 13 applies here and GCC has made the right decision.
Delete"We would have to cross that bridge when we get there."
DeleteWell, this particular bridge already passed. But yes, if it comes around again, hopefully GCC will consider what I've recommended.
Do you think that GCC is "bending the knee to Caesar" for having fire extinguishers, exit signs and other building codes that are mandated by the state? Do you think GCC should teach its members not to pay taxes since that is also "bending the knee to Caesar"?
Deletemeyu
Delete"Do you think that GCC is 'bending the knee to Caesar' for having fire extinguishers, exit signs and other building codes that are mandated by the state? Do you think GCC should teach its members not to pay taxes since that is also 'bending the knee to Caesar'?"
I'm fairly certain building codes aren't on par with state-mandated worship of God. Also, the Bible teaches we can both pay taxes as well as worship God.
That said, even in both cases (building codes and taxes), it's possible for us to push back if we find they're unjust.
Nor is limiting the number of people in a room for health concerns a " state-mandated worship of God".
DeleteIt was not unjust for the state to mandate the number of people that can be in a room because of the virus crisis. GCC was not "bending the knee to Caesar" for doing so.
meyu
Delete"Nor is limiting the number of people in a room for health concerns a " state-mandated worship of God". It was not unjust for the state to mandate the number of people that can be in a room because of the virus crisis. GCC was not "bending the knee to Caesar" for doing so."
Anyway you've already gone back and forth on this with Steve in his post. If he can't reason with you, then I certainly can't.
However, that wasn't even the main point of my post. I've already pointed out to you above what my main point was.
Anyway, meyu, neither of us will change one another's minds. You've already been through these arguments with Steve. So I'd suggest it's time to let it go. Move on to something else.
Delete"Do you think that GCC is 'bending the knee to Caesar' for having fire extinguishers, exit signs and other building codes that are mandated by the state?"
DeleteRed herring. Has nothing to do with the state banning public worship.
At first glance I read the title of this post as "What if Grace Community Church deified the state?"
ReplyDeleteThat would be a different question. Although all things considered some might suggest they actually did in the present situation per Acts 4:18-20.