Churches need to do more apologetics. That said, apostates can't blame it on the church. Take the initiative. There's no lack of apologetic material, much of which is a mouse click away, available for free. But people are so passive and lazy. Moreover, asking the wrong people. Why think the people who attend your church are qualified to answer tough questions when they have no training in the relevant fields.
It's like saying, "I was having car trouble, so I asked all my friends what the problem was and how to fix it, but none of them had good answers, so I lost my faith in automechanics". Did it ever occur to you to ask an automechanic?
Or like saying, "My dog was sick. I asked all my friends what was wrong with her but none of them had the answer so I lost my faith in veterinary medicine!" Uh...what about asking a veterinarian?
Exactly. To be frank, I'm getting tired of this meme. And I no longer "do the thing" where I share something like this and say, "Okay, people, this is why we need apologetics." To be honest, I feel more and more like a salesman when I do that. She could easily have looked for answers *online*, if what she's saying is really true. And sometimes I think people just make up that meme and scarcely ever asked anybody. I mean, if she asked her parents about something else important to her, would she have stopped with their answers?
ReplyDeleteRelated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGmtR2D6pCU
I don't have much patience for these excuses. Spiritual matters are the most important matters in the universe. Go do your own homework if you are an adult and really can think for himself.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time every local church of any size should have a handful of people who are at least competent apologists. The pastor and elders especially, they should not just be "preachers" but apologists. That doesn't mean they need to be encyclopedic in their knowledge, but should at least be able to point people in the right direction, toward good resources.
Perry's comments are partly true and partly untrue. On the one hand, there are answers to questions like the ones she refers to, in books, online, and elsewhere. On the other hand, parents, friends, pastors, and other people in positions of influence tend to be ridiculously ignorant of the issues and unconcerned about addressing them. Somebody like Perry shouldn't have to be running web searches or looking up books in a library to get answers her parents, friends, and other people should have provided years ago. People should have been providing her with intellectual meat and teaching her how to go get meat on her own as soon as she could. She should have been getting a steady diet of meat from the people around her and through her own efforts.
ReplyDeleteInstead, the large majority of people in our culture, including the large majority of Evangelicals, give out far too much milk (or worse) and not nearly enough meat. To whatever small extent they're concerned about intellectual issues in religious contexts, they expect a tiny minority of the population to do the large majority of the heavy lifting. And they don't have much respect for that tiny minority and don't make much of an effort to put their work to good use. If Perry went to somebody like a parent, a pastor, or a friend about a philosophical or historical issue, how many would even know of a good philosopher or historian to recommend? And a lot of the issues in question shouldn't require consulting a professional at every step along the way. Why are laymen, living in a culture with as many resources as America has, so ignorant and unprepared to address these matters?
It's not that most Americans and people in similar cultures are incapable of doing the work. It's that they're unwilling. They're not illiterate peasants living in poverty under an oppressive government. Rather, they prefer to largely waste their lives on doing trivial things with their relatives and friends, advancing their trivial careers, joking around, watching movies, following sports, remodeling their kitchen, etc.
Perry should blame herself. But it's also true that the people around her deserve a lot of blame. That includes the large majority of Evangelicals, though they're less blameworthy than other groups.
Jason, both of your replies to Katy and the rest of us are very helpful and apropos. Personally acquainted with a number of small churches in the mtns of western NC, the prevalence of indifference, laziness, anti-science attitudes, and contentedness to remain unequipped and stagnant is enough to frustrate and burn-out those of us who might want to reverse the trend. I sense that the problem is huge. The labor and rigor of the heavy lifting you describe is unappealing to many. Were it not for both Christ's commission (to make disciples) and his spiritual gifting (teaching, discernment, etc.) there would be little incentive to continue to swim against the current (the strength of which has grown, sadly). The Lord has impressed upon myself the need to 'redeem the time' remaining, so my desire is for Him to "establish the work of our hands" with meaning and significance (Ps 90:17). A responder to this thread wondered why the Perry citation resulted in so many comments. The answer to that certainly includes the fact that her few poignant words were so convicting. Thank you for taking the time to address a growing problem in the church while advising us all that our labors can reverse the tide if we will but incorporate some of your suggestions. I may not be optimistic, but our state of affairs would seem to demand wholesale change of heart by many.
DeleteSince we're in the Christmas season, think of the situation in that context. How many churches have ever gone into any significant depth about Christmas apologetics? By contrast, how many churches put a lot of effort into Christmas music, Christmas plays, etc. every year? How many parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. are enthusiastic about seeing young children sing or participate in a Christmas play every year? By contrast, how many of them love those children enough to teach them Christmas apologetics or to help them in religious intellectual contexts more broadly? The problem isn't just with church leaders, though there are some problems there. The worse problem is with the laymen who are so overly interested in having their emotions moved by hearing music, seeing young children they enjoy looking at, etc. while being so uninterested in religious intellectual issues and the minds of those young children who are moving their emotions.
ReplyDeleteFound out my church is doing a singalong :p. They have really rushed classes between sermons *most* Sundays, and one 8-week session was on apologetics that was kinda basic (Kalum argument, argument from evil, basics on reliability of the Gospels, that sort of stuff), but still the most apologetics I've seen brought up in a church.
DeleteI find this type of 'complaint' utterly vacuous and two a penny. Call me a cynic, but it strikes me as self-serving. The quote has all the right buzz phrases. The 'strict Christian upbringing', 'asking for answers,' 'I was told I shouldn't question [what] I was taught.'
ReplyDeleteThis type of unthinking garbage is so unoriginal and trite yet still so popular. You'd think by now these people would've seen the same 'complaint' enough times that it'd have dawned on them to reach beyond such shallowness. But at least it attracts all the right attention.
Translation of what Katy Perry said: I don’t care enough about God, the meaning and purpose of life, why I’m here, life/death, or my soul to pursue such questions any further. Instead I’ll just have fun being a rock star until I die.
ReplyDeleteLike many apostates, Katy Perry lives such an envious life after abandoning Christianity! /s
Deletehttps://www.nickiswift.com/46419/sketchy-things-katy-perry-everyone-ignores/
She's an odious creature. Utterly repulsive.
DeleteI agree there should be men and women who are good apologists in our churches but even if there is not, there is no excuse. I came to Christ in ’81 and had no church for a while because I could not find one. Rural New England did not have many conservative churches in those days and I came to Christ while reading a tract that a friend had given me at a drunken party. We had an old family fried who was a single German man who studied profusely. He read in three or four languages and had a well-used library bigger that our spacious living room. He was over our house weekly for dinner and often our conversations turned to my new found faith. There was no way I could hold an argument with this guy, he being in his 60s, me being 19 and only a Christian for a few months. However, armed with only a Christian Book Distributor (CBD) catalog I was able to find the answers, not necessarily to combat every question he raised, but to at least have the confidence that every question could be answered with the necessary time, energy and resources.
ReplyDeleteOne thing we do at my current church is spend almost two years with our teen group every four years teaching them who to do apologetics.
Yes, let's not forget that the Internet has been widespread since the mid-90s. While it would be great for people to have answers, but come on.
DeleteIts fascinating that this topic got so many replies.
ReplyDeleteI have attended NAMM shows from time to time and bumped into musicians who say they do know Christ. Over time I quickly learned that Christ doesn't get the same attention that fame and money does.
I watched an interview with Katy's parents years ago and I am hard pressed that they were unable to explain the Gospel to her. They are very outspoken by mature it would appear.
So Katy's comments just don't ring true on any level. Certainly her lifestyle demonstrates no interest in spiritual matters.
Its been said that DL Moody didn't pray for someone because he didn't want that person in Heaven. I'm not sure he said that but I get the idea.