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Saturday, June 15, 2019

Veggie tales

1. I'm not against vegetarianism or veganism per se, but I'm not against meat-eating either. However, humans are omnivorous. Ideally we should have a varied diet (e.g. lean meats, green leafy vegetables, Butterfinger cookie dough cheesecake bars fried in a vat of lard).

2. That said, some strict vegetarians and vegans act like they're morally superior to people who eat meat. They turn their personal choice into a moral crusade against people who aren't vegetarian or vegan. They become zealots for vegetarianism or veganism.

On that front, Tim Hsiao has defended eating meat. Speaking of Tim Hsiao, I just want to note it's hard not to appreciate his artful photos taken at fine dining institutions across the nation such as (to pick a random example or two) steakhouses and burger joints.

3. What's more, some strict vegetarians and vegans act like the medical science is on their side. That vegetarianism and/or veganism represent the side of the intellectual sophisticates. I've even heard some argue humans evolved to eat plants. That we're fundamentally herbivores. That sort of thing. It's usually at this point when I roll my eyes and order a hamburger: In-N-Out, give me your double-double please. On second thought, let's make it a 5x5. Thanks!

4. As far as the medical science goes, strict vegetarians and vegans can often suffer from nutritional deficiencies. For example, take vitamin B12 deficiency. That's one of the most common deficiencies in strict vegetarians and vegans.

a. Plants don't make B12. At best, some plants can absorb B12 like Venom absorbing Spider-Man, but that alone wouldn't be sufficient enough B12 for a strict vegetarian or vegan diet. Not unless we're talking about chowing down forests! (Save the animals or save the rainforests - a moral dilemma for vegheads?) The primary reason is because plants don't have the necessary enzymes for B12 synthesis.

b. B12 comes from animals and animal products. Meat, eggs, cheese, dairy, and the like.

c. If humans are fundamentally herbivores, then (to take one issue) why do humans lack the gastrointestinal fermentation processes which support the growth of B12 synthesizing microorganisms (e.g. bacteria, algae) when these are present in herbivores? Also, where's my extra stomach? (Ruminates the illusive ruminant.)

d. B12 is needed for the body to make DNA, red blood cells, nerves, among other things.

e. B12 deficiency can be pernicious. Strict vegetarians and vegans often don't realize they have B12 deficiency until it sneaks up on them after it already caused some damage (e.g. anemia, tingling or numbness in hands or feet, memory loss, losing the ability to keep veganism to yourself).

f. Hence strict vegetarians and vegans need to supplement their diet with B12 (among other things). Typically that comes in the form of higher doses of multi-vitamins with B12, foods fortified with B12, and/or weekly B12 injections. However, after age 50, give or take, it becomes more difficult for the body to absorb B12 through fortified foods.

5. Obtaining B12 (among other necessary nutrients) without eating meat or animal products is typically something a Westerner living in the comparatively affluent West can afford to do. You don't see too many people in developing nations who are vegans. And the ones who are vegans typically happen to be the ones who are likewise comparatively well-to-do in their own nations.

6. In fairness, some people overeat meat. (So says the guy who orders 5x5s at In-N-Out.) However, that's a separate issue.

13 comments:

  1. Best argument for at least limiting the amount of mammal flesh and bird flesh one eats is the undeniable fact that the workers who work in factory farms routinely torture these animals, and the limited physical spaces themselves are often tortuous. The Bible speaks clearly that animals are not to be abused or tortured. Fish I see as a different matter; they seem far less conscious of things, though they do feel pain, of course. But mammals like cows, steer, & pigs clearly have feelings, a sort of consciousness, and social relationships, just like dogs, chimpanzees, mountain gorillas, etc. And even chickens and turkeys are not the dumb birds people tend to think that they are. When animals are humanely cared for and slaughtered, I see no problem with eating their meat or milk or eggs. But in today's modern, commercial, corporate agriculture system, that's virtually impossible. Republicans have passed laws that even make it a serious crime for any outsider to videotape or photograph the tortuous conditions or activities on factory farms. Republicans insist that regulations that could protect animals be eliminated or reduced. Most/many of the workers on factory farms are illegal immigrants who dare not report illegal/unethical activities on the farms where they work, lest their illegal status be discovered by the govt.(their employers know of course they are illegal immigrants). As Calvin wrote, the people of the world are "totally depraved," and the abuse of animals in the factory farm system is just one glaring example. For this reason, I believe it is Biblical and reasonable to (a) get as much nutrition from plants as possible, and (b) as much as possible, buy meat, milk, and eggs from small, independent local farmers who practice humane methods.

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    1. Though I haven't read the paper yet, it looks like Tim Hsiao's paper that Hawk links to might touch on this or at least have some relevant cross-over.

      P.S. Been enjoying your posts on Triablogue, Hawk.

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    2. Clearly it's far more humane to be eaten alive in the wild.

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    3. Tim has indeed addressed industrial farming in a separate paper:

      https://www.academia.edu/31053605/Industrial_Farming_is_Not_Cruel_to_Animals

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    4. Thanks, Jonathan! Much appreciated.

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    5. Barto

      1. "Torture" is loaded language.

      2. I guess we should massage our cattle and play classical music for them like the Japanese do (per the urban legends) before they kill the cows and turn them into wagyu and Kobe steak?

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    6. Of course, I'm all for creation care, but at the end of the day we still eat cows, sheep, pigs, etc.

      I'll pass on eating dogs and monkeys, but that's because I'm a Westerner. I know other cultures that do eat these animals.

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  2. Also this:

    https://imgur.com/Q9O71ne

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  3. Hawk - been enjoying your posts. Love this one. I personally adopted the subtitle of a Texas steakhour - "Vegetables are what food eats!" Yeeeehaaa! Somewhat more seriously, what do vegans make/think about all the sacrifices of animals in the OT? Wouldn't that be an issue for them?

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    1. Lol, Texans! And lots of thanks for reading my posts, jttayler.

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  4. "what do vegans make/think about all the sacrifices of animals in the OT? Wouldn't that be an issue for them?"

    I'm not entirely sure what Christian vegans would say. I have heard one or two say ridiculous things like Jesus being the good shepherd who lays down to life for his sheep means we should be willing die for animals too. Not sure how accurate this Wiki entry is, and to be honest I didn't read it, but maybe it has some clues?

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    1. The post-Resurrection Jesus summoned fish to be caught, and then grilled some on a fire.

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