At the heart of the scandals is infidelity–literally the lack of faith. There are priests, including bishops and even cardinals, who do not believe in God, or whose belief in God is merely notional (as definitively evidenced by their lack of fear of Him). https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/08/a-crisis-of-infidelity
When I've asked online Catholic apologists about how they harmonise this sort of thing with their belief in the supposed superior guidance of the Roman Catholic hierarchy by the Holy Spirit , and/or superior presence of the Holy Spirit in the Roman Catholic church in some sense, since Rome is the one true church that has received the promises, the reply I normally get boils down to........ we have small print that covers it somewhere, blah blah blah, here is a technical get-out clause for you.
i.e. The effect is conceded as invisible (or worse) in the real world, but the lawyers have worked it out, somewhere. I normally then point out that that's a pretty huge discount on the claims they're normally making about Rome's superiority over all those other supposedly non-authentic churches out there, plenty of which *don't* have problems to do with endemic clergy corruption that is not disciplined, etc.
One thing I've notice about the current crisis is that even the most orthodox (conservative, not necessarily traditionalist) Catholics exempt John Paul 2 and Benedict 16. I don't have any reason to think that they shuffled pedophile priests around, but when presented with evidence that Bishops did, they did nothing. What if John Paul 2 or Benedict had sentenced Cdl. Law with a life of "prayer and repentance."? Francis attended Law's funeral.
"It seems to me that at the heart of the scandals is infidelity--literally the lack of faith. There are priests, including bishops and even cardinals, who do not believe in God, or whose belief in God is merely notional (as definitively evidenced by their lack of fear of Him)."
It's always interesting to watch Catholics empty the "Church" of people in order to save the Institution. The "Church" is indefectible but the people in the "Church" are not.
EA writes: "It's always interesting to watch Catholics empty the "Church" of people in order to save the Institution. The "Church" is indefectible but the people in the "Church" are not."
I'm not a Catholic (at least not anymore), but non-Catholics aren't really in that different a position. We believe Scripture, but many vocal proponents of the truths of Scripture are also unethical scoundrels and scam artists. Does that mean that Scripture is thus untrue?
If I recall, D.A. Carson has spoken and written a couple of things related to this question. Such as when he talks about a former evangelical Christian pastor, Roy Clements, who apparently was a close friend too, publicly announcing his homosexuality and leaving his wife and children. I don't recall where Carson has done this, but this post might point in the right direction.
(Previous comment replaced to replace the typo).
ReplyDeleteWhen I've asked online Catholic apologists about how they harmonise this sort of thing with their belief in the supposed superior guidance of the Roman Catholic hierarchy by the Holy Spirit , and/or superior presence of the Holy Spirit in the Roman Catholic church in some sense, since Rome is the one true church that has received the promises, the reply I normally get boils down to........ we have small print that covers it somewhere, blah blah blah, here is a technical get-out clause for you.
i.e. The effect is conceded as invisible (or worse) in the real world, but the lawyers have worked it out, somewhere. I normally then point out that that's a pretty huge discount on the claims they're normally making about Rome's superiority over all those other supposedly non-authentic churches out there, plenty of which *don't* have problems to do with endemic clergy corruption that is not disciplined, etc.
One thing I've notice about the current crisis is that even the most orthodox (conservative, not necessarily traditionalist) Catholics exempt John Paul 2 and Benedict 16. I don't have any reason to think that they shuffled pedophile priests around, but when presented with evidence that Bishops did, they did nothing. What if John Paul 2 or Benedict had sentenced Cdl. Law with a life of "prayer and repentance."? Francis attended Law's funeral.
ReplyDelete"It seems to me that at the heart of the scandals is infidelity--literally the lack of faith. There are priests, including bishops and even cardinals, who do not believe in God, or whose belief in God is merely notional (as definitively evidenced by their lack of fear of Him)."
ReplyDeleteIt's always interesting to watch Catholics empty the "Church" of people in order to save the Institution. The "Church" is indefectible but the people in the "Church" are not.
The neutron bomb tactic: a weapon that liquidates people while leaving the buildings intact.
DeleteEA writes: "It's always interesting to watch Catholics empty the "Church" of people in order to save the Institution. The "Church" is indefectible but the people in the "Church" are not."
ReplyDeleteI'm not a Catholic (at least not anymore), but non-Catholics aren't really in that different a position. We believe Scripture, but many vocal proponents of the truths of Scripture are also unethical scoundrels and scam artists. Does that mean that Scripture is thus untrue?
Yes, that's a question which merits a good answer. Perhaps I'll do a post on that if I remember.
DeleteIf I recall, D.A. Carson has spoken and written a couple of things related to this question. Such as when he talks about a former evangelical Christian pastor, Roy Clements, who apparently was a close friend too, publicly announcing his homosexuality and leaving his wife and children. I don't recall where Carson has done this, but this post might point in the right direction.
Delete(Not to imply Clements was a scam artist. But there's some crossover in the response.)
Delete