- Fred Butler I know Phil has interacted with Steve via personal email on this. Steve is getting his info filtered through the ramblings of a notorious JMac critic/troll.
- But let's say JMac does make 2 million a year. Ummm. So what, exactly? How is his salary have any bearing on the reputation of his ministry? How exactly would his salary of such an amount keep him from honestly criticizing the emperor decadence of the charismatic tv preachers? I happen to know someone who is extremely close to Benny Hinn, and he doesn't live modestly at all and the criticism about the money he fleeces from his followers is spot on.
- BTW, do all of us who actually work for the guy, who have been watching him pastor for now 20 years (as for me) Phil who has been working for the guy 30 plus year have any credibility when we say the nonsense that Steve raises is grossly exaggerated? Or are we part of the money machine covering our treasure box? That of course would then cast dispersion on our own Christian reputation,
- Fred Butler You're not reading the documents accurately. Phil explained this all to Steve when they corresponded.
- Fred Butler He doesn't make 2 million a year. Stop embarrassing yourself. Steve has been told this stop parroting his nonsense. I thought you all didn't believe in vows of poverty.
- Fred Butler John doesn't make 2 million a year.
- Brian Wagnon Ok. What does he make? If there is nothing wrong with it then it shouldn't be a problem disclosing it, right?
- Fred Butler I have no idea. His salary is set by the board of directors of the various ministries in which he serves. I just know the man gives away a lot of it. My family has been blessed by his generosity.
ii) I'm not getting my info "filtered through the ramblings of a notorious JMac critic/troll." My primary source of info. is Phil Johnson. Phil contacted me, and I asked him some questions. I then posted my correspondence.
iii) One of the basic problems is that Phil doesn't know how much JMac makes from the combined ministries (or book royalties). And Phil doesn't want to know. He doesn't think that's anybody's business. And Fred admits that he doesn't know how much JMac makes.
Needless to say, they're in no position to say how much he doesn't make if they don't even know how much he does make.
iv) I realize Fred is playing the role of the loyal employee who sticks up for the boss. Like the White House press secretary who defends whatever the boss says or does. A company man. A classic apparatchik. But that's no excuse for Fred to level demonstrably false allegations and misattributions.
As I recall the money per se was never the issue to begin with, it was rather the question of one pastor (JMac) who is by all indications living extremely comfortably by any measure to credibly critique the health, wealth & prosperity gang for living too high on the hog via peddling God and the Bible for lucre.
ReplyDeleteSort of a tu quoque argument.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteYou need to speak with Alan. He is quoting you and your previous articles on a private FB group. I was merely correcting his falsehoods.
No, you need to correct your own falsehoods. You were explicitly attributing to me a claim I never made, then attacking me for it.
DeleteMy posts are in the public domain. You can see for yourself what I did and didn't say. Don't try to shift blame onto someone else, as if you're dependent on a second party for your information.
You need to drop the patent evasion and restract your slipshod allegations.
This entire post was outside the context of the conversation that actually occurred in my Facebook group, the Pulpit Bunker. Some context would be required for the casual reader to have the slightest accurate understanding of what transpired there.
ReplyDeleteWhat transpired is that Fred accused me of something which he can't document, the proceeded to attack me on the basis of his misattribution.
DeleteHaving been a part of the original conversation on Facebook, I can say unequivocally that Fred's comments were taken out of context. Jordan is absolutely right about that.
ReplyDeleteHaving read the comments in context, I can say unequivocally that they were *not* taken out of context. But you're a team-player. A blind loyalist to your team and teammates. Closing ranks is what I've come to expect from MacArthurites. Pentecostals have their hero-worship and you have yours. Two sides of the same counterfeit coin.
DeleteGoodbye, Steve. Farewell and all that.
Delete