The following how-to video has been making the rounds:
I'll just say I doubt most the apostles could've made it thru such a rigorous selection process!
To be fair, the RCC isn't Christ so they wouldn't be able to appoint someone as easily as the Lord appointed the apostles. I mean it's not as if the RCC can peer into the hearts and minds of men, among other things, like Jesus can.
However, I don't recall Jesus saying you had to have multiple and higher degrees, be of a certain age, etc. to become an apostle. But I guess Catholic bishops are a bit different from apostles.
Anyway, I'm a bit surprised popes, cardinals, bishops, and priests haven't seriously considered standardized testing yet. Well, just a hopefully helpful tip to Il Papa and the dons from your friendly neighborhood Protestant!
Catholic bishops are just like apostles. We expect one in 12 to betray Christ, and 1o of the remaining 11 to abandon him. We see him much the same way that Christ viewed the teachers of the law, really:
ReplyDeleteThen Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice." Matthew 23:1-3
And we rather fancy the Pope has a certain resemblance to the high priest.
"But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing, nor do you consider that it is better for you that one man should die instead of the people, so that the whole nation may not perish.” He did not say this on his own, but since he was high priest for that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, and not only for the nation, but also to gather into one the dispersed children of God." John 11:49-52
Sometimes we have holy popes. Sometimes, we have great sinners. Sometimes we get mediocrity. But always, always, we have a man sitting on the chair of St. Peter, teaching with authority, wielding the keys of the kingdom of heaven like the Davidic chief ministers of old (Isaiah 22:15-25), teaching the truth about who Jesus is just as Peter did (Matthew 16:13-19).
Catholic bishops are just like apostles.
DeleteThis is B.S., pure and pure.
"Sometimes we have holy popes. Sometimes, we have great sinners. Sometimes we get mediocrity. But always, always, we have a man sitting on the chair of St. Peter, teaching with authority, wielding the keys of the kingdom of heaven like the Davidic chief ministers of old (Isaiah 22:15-25), teaching the truth about who Jesus is just as Peter did (Matthew 16:13-19)."
ReplyDeleteLooks like this means undercover atheists can sneak in and become Pope and teach (fallibly or infallibly) that Genesis teaches evolution/theistic evolution or that any "good man" can be saved even if he outwardly reject the church (thus a pagan, Jew, heretic or schismatic).
By today's standards, a subtle humanistic Pope might even avoid being labelled as an "anti-Pope", except by the traditionalists. In such an ecumenical world, I think an atheist Pope could get even people of other religions calling to him "Viva Papa!".
BTW, has this already happened? Has an atheist (anti-)Pope(s) already ruled the Vatican in the past?
Hi Rooney -- I think it would be anachronistic to say that an "atheist" has been pope. Roman Catholics, though, allow that truly wicked men have been popes -- based on Augustine's contention with the Donatists that "we are the church" and "the church contains wheat and tares".
DeleteThis falls short, however, in that these truly wicked individuals become mere place-holders for an "unbroken succession", keeping an "office" alive down through time, no matter how far the individual has gone down the path of reprobation. They still "count".
You are correct though -- Rome already has an official teaching that "that any 'good man' can be saved even if he outwardly reject the church (thus a pagan, Jew, heretic or schismatic)". See CCC 847: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation."
I heard that they have a list of about 40 antiPopes. Any idea if that list is infallible?
DeleteIt would [somehow] have to be, else they couldn't make the claim that their doctrines are "divinely protected from doctrinal error, not moral error, under certain [not-infallibly-defined] conditions".
DeleteJohn, what do you mean by saying,
Delete"I think it would be anachronistic to say that an "atheist" has been pope."
I don't see how it could be anachronistic. A classic example of an anachronism is when a clock is said to have chimed in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, since chiming clocks weren't invented until much later. You must be using the term in some other way.
I can't see why an atheist (or more) couldn't have risen to the rank of Pope. I don't know how historically and factually accurate the following article is, but it claims Boniface VIII was a self-professed/proclaimed atheist.
http://web.archive.org/web/20121029045221/http://thelistcafe.com/top-10-most-evil-popes
You must be using the term in some other way.
DeleteI mean, some other way that I don't understand since you've used the word in the way I normally understand it plenty of times in the past.
Well I guess if they are not careful in Pope selection, or if the atheist is very cleaver, some atheist might sneak in in the future.
DeleteIn fact, a smart, informed and subtle person of any religion could potentially sneak into the Vatican and become Pope and do whatever he likes with his power.
I think John is saying that he isnt aware that any "official" atheists have been Pope in the past. I think everyone knows however, that many Popes, due to their hypocritical lifestyles, could be classified as "practical atheists" or at least "false RCs".
Once elected, the only RCC mechanism of defence against a false Pope, according to Bellarmine, is private judgement.
Bellarmine said something like: "for men are not bound or able to read hearts, but when they see that someone is a heretic by his works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple".
I am not 100% sure if the list of 41 anti-Popes is infallible and one has to wonder if they have managed to detect every single anti-Pope in the past.
If some did sneak through, then I guess modern RCs may be holding onto dogmas infallibly declared by false RCs, and they cant know it.
This reminds me of a pun from M.A.S.H:
ReplyDeleteTrapper: "You can fool some of the papal some of the time..."