jesse says:
August 29, 2012 at 1:55 am
Roger, any chance you could deal with some of the verses Piper quotes and give the Arminian perspective?
rogereolson says:August 29, 2012 at 12:31 pm
You missed it, so I’ll say it again: No need to, as IF those scriptures mean what Piper says they mean, then Jesus Christ was not the perfect revelation of God and the Bible itself is not worthy of our trust because God is not good and thus not to be trusted.
There’s a reason why Christianity is called…Christianity. There’s a reason why Christians call themselves…Christians (cf. Acts 11:26). Our theology is Christocentric. Our piety is Christocentric. It all comes down to Jesus. Total devotion to Jesus.
Of course, none of us loves Jesus as much as we should. That’s something we need to work on everyday. Reminding ourselves of what he did for us, does for us, will do for us. Adoring his character.
Christian faith means living for Jesus, living with Jesus, dying with Jesus, and sometimes dying for Jesus (martyrdom). As Paul says, our life is hidden with Christ (Col 3:3).
For Christians, Jesus is the touchstone of all that’s right and true. They don’t measure Jesus by what is good; rather, they measure what is good by Jesus.
Compare this with Roger Olson. Olson lacks total devotion to Jesus. If Jesus doesn’t measure up to Olson’s preconceived ideals, then Olson is prepared to flip him off and go his own way. Olson hates Calvinism more than he loves Jesus.
Olson is more important than Jesus. Jesus is only good if Olson says he’s good. Olson doesn’t measure himself by Jesus. Rather, Olson measures Jesus by himself. If by that yardstick, Jesus comes up short, then so much the better for Olson and so much the worse for Jesus.
Of course, this is nothing knew. Many Jews were looking for the Messiah, but Jesus wasn’t the Messiah they were looking for. He didn’t live up to their expectations. He wasn't their kind of Messiah.
Olson likes to draw lines in the sand. He draws the line with Calvinists. But now he’s drawn the line with Jesus. He’s prepared to draw a line that puts Jesus on one side of the line, and Olson on the other side of the line. Of course, when you draw the line that way, you may find yourself backing into outer darkness.
Keep in mind that Olson is the star player over at the Society of Evangelical Arminians. Although I haven’t kept count, it’s my off-the-cuff impression that his stuff is reposted there more often than anyone else.
Given a choice between Roger Olson and Jesus Christ, I think I’ll take my chances with Jesus.
Olson is his own god. He's a self-idolater. This is just one more proof that most Arminians who take up the cause against Calvinism aren't actually Christians. They don't care about lying, or brazenly calling God immoral. It's all good as long as it undermines God's sovereignty.
ReplyDeletewow; Olson really revealed a lot there. Can you give a link or the verses they were talking about? The verses that Piper explains about Jesus.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2012/08/john-piper-gods-sovereignty-and-sin/
DeleteThanks Steve!
Deletewhen you push any non-calvinist, they'll end up defending their view based on what suits their personal morality. olson is just more up-front about it, which is refreshing (although it is a bit anti-biblical, as his rants about the untrustworthiness of the OT demonstrate.)
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much this is Olson's liberalism more than it is his Arminian theology, as many Arminians would not back him here, but most liberals (if not all) would.
ReplyDeleteA friend of mine, who is a fairly knowledgeable Arminian, says that Olson is an embarrassment to the cause.
DeleteI think the standard moral objection which Arminians raise to Calvinism logically requires something like Olson's position.
Delete“I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist either in Europe or America. But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power. And this undoubtedly will be the case unless they hold fast both the doctrine, spirit, and discipline with which they first set out.”-John Wesley
ReplyDeleteI suppose we could disagree us Reformed believers with the not so Reformed like John Wesley. We may still argue a bit, but in the end we will pray together and ask our Lord to fill us with His Spirit and fire to serve Him, for His glory.
This Roger seems to know nothing of this religion.