Homosexual men are unmanly. They suffer from a manhood deficit. Something in their social formation went awry. Some psychologists trace this to a dysfunctional father/son relationship.
That’s not necessarily incurable. Not necessarily something be ashamed of. Many adults suffer from aftereffects of inadequate parenting. And in many cases, their parents were poor parents because their grandparents were poor parents. For many men and women, psychological maturation is a life-long game of catch-up.
Not only are homosexual men unmanly, but straight men who defend sodomite marriage are unmanly as well. Indeed, straight men who defend sodomite marriage carry on like sob sisters. It’s embarrassing to read.
Men have a duty to uphold basic standards of masculinity. To be good fathers, husbands, brothers, friends, and mentors. To be good role models for their sons and daughters. Or coaches, teachers, and scoutmasters. To set an example for the up-and-coming generation.
The manhood deficit is one result of rejecting God’s design for men and women.
"Indeed, straight men who defend sodomite marriage carry on like sob sisters. It’s embarrassing to read."
ReplyDeleteThey don't seem to be embarrassed by it.
I think you are conflating two things that aren't necessarily the same. Homosexuality as the condition of being primarily attracted to one's own sex, and homosexuality as sodomite behaviour. Of course homosexual sodomy is a violation of manhood, and no doubt homosexuality is a twisting of sexual attraction resulting from a fallen world. Nevertheless, to extrapolate unmanliness from this attraction is, I think, unfair, as the man concerned may be masculine in important ways described by the Bible- a leader, a warrior (in prayer, for example) etc. and also remain celibate.
ReplyDeleteAlso, whilst these attractions may in some cases have a root in poor fatherhood, there are also plenty of examples of men with perfectly normal parenting who end up with same-sex attractions. I think it is simplistic to try and attribute this to parenting alone, or even primarily. There are other important social factors, as well as perhaps biological ones (although probably not genetic). In any case, there are such men who find it impossible to "catch up", that is to say that whatever damage has been done, and however it has been done, is irreparable in this world.
There are reports that John Travolta engages in same-sex behavior.
ReplyDeleteWho woulda thunk it?!
It seems this is a pattern that unfortunately repeats. This from the Book of Judges:
ReplyDeleteAfter that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12 They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15 Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.
Peace.
THOMAS KENINGLEY SAID:
ReplyDelete"I think you are conflating two things that aren't necessarily the same. Homosexuality as the condition of being primarily attracted to one's own sex, and homosexuality as sodomite behaviour. Of course homosexual sodomy is a violation of manhood, and no doubt homosexuality is a twisting of sexual attraction resulting from a fallen world. Nevertheless, to extrapolate unmanliness from this attraction is, I think, unfair, as the man concerned may be masculine in important ways described by the Bible- a leader, a warrior (in prayer, for example) etc. and also remain celibate."
It's unmanly for a man to be attracted to men (or boys) rather than women. That's an inversion of normative male psychology. Men ought to have natural feelings for women.
"Also, whilst these attractions may in some cases have a root in poor fatherhood, there are also plenty of examples of men with perfectly normal parenting who end up with same-sex attractions. I think it is simplistic to try and attribute this to parenting alone, or even primarily."
I stated that that's one theory. No doubt homosexuality is multiply-determined.
"In any case, there are such men who find it impossible to 'catch up', that is to say that whatever damage has been done, and however it has been done, is irreparable in this world."
I didn't say it was invariably curable or invariably incurable.
"It's unmanly for a man to be attracted to men (or boys) rather than women. That's an inversion of normative male psychology. Men ought to have natural feelings for women."
ReplyDelete"Homosexual men are unmanly."
I completely agree with the first statement. It is obviously abnormal and indeed the product of the fall for men to be sexually attracted to men.
The second statement, however, doesn't necessarily follow from this. If a man with same-sex attractions is manly in other ways, does this mean he remains nonetheless unmanly due to his attractions? Would you say that a Christian man with same-sex attractions cannot be manly until and unless his attractions are changed? How would you counsel him to uphold basic standards of masculinity?
"I didn't say it was invariably curable or invariably incurable."
No, you're right. I think I read that into what you were saying. I think it is important, however, to not promise that which God does not in his word. But you weren't doing so in any case, so apologies for that.
Pot meet Kettle. The evangelical church tends to turn men into effeminate wusses.
ReplyDeleteTHOMAS KENINGLEY SAID:
ReplyDelete"Would you say that a Christian man with same-sex attractions cannot be manly until and unless his attractions are changed? How would you counsel him to uphold basic standards of masculinity?"
i) He should be totally honest with God about his sin. And God is the one person we can be totally honest with. The one person we don't have to keep secrets from–since that's impossible.
He should be encouraged by God's sustaining grace and forgiveness.
ii) Unlike you, I don't assume he must remain celibate. In the past, before it was stigmatized, homosexuals often led double lives. They had wives and they had kids.
Now how did they have kids unless they could achieve sexual arousal with a woman?
For that matter, many straight men have been faithfully married to women who weren't physically appealing–and vice versa. Yet they had a successful marriage.
A man will find sexual intercourse enjoyable even if he isn't emotionally drawn to her.
So I think one problem is that we're fostering unrealistic expectations.
Thanks for a helpful answer. :)
ReplyDelete"Unlike you, I don't assume he must remain celibate. In the past, before it was stigmatized, homosexuals often led double lives. They had wives and they had kids."
Yes they did, although I think that in the past many did this deceptively, without telling their fiancées, a kind of dishonesty which I don't think would be an option for a Christian man. I'm sure some women would be able and willing to deal with that, although I'm sure that some would not want to do so, which is not unreasonable. It certainly complicates things!
I agree about the unrealistic expectations, and am sure that homosexual men are capable of some level of sexual performance with a woman. Once again though, homosexuality is surely a significant complicating factor.
Do you not think that for many in this situation the wiser option would be singleness?
I think they should discuss the situation with their girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteIt is funny that the One True Church doesn't see fit to discipline Joe Biden over his stance on gay marriage. I thought that sola ecclesia was supposed to take care of problems like this.
ReplyDeleteI think they should discuss the situation with their girlfriend.
ReplyDeleteLOL
I’ve quoted (approvingly) this post at our blog "The Orthosphere."
ReplyDelete(http://orthosphere.org/2012/05/14/the-manhood-deficit/)