Pope Benedict XVI ‘eagerly desires’ renewal for the ‘beloved Church in Ireland’, where many people have “experienced a loss of trust” in the Church as a result of abuse of minors by clergy, stated a Summary of the Findings of the Apostolic Visitation to the Church in Ireland, published Tuesday.Notice, “Church authorities” must acknowledge a “great sense of pain and shame”, but the Vatican itself does not take credit for “shortcomings of the past”, nor for having instituted the policies that led to the “inadequate understanding of and reaction to the terrible abuse of minors”. It’s always somebody else’s fault. That’s how come we can keep telling ourselves we’re infallible.
It states that during their stay in Ireland, the 7 teams charged with Visiting the Church there were able to see just how much the shortcomings of the past gave rise to an inadequate understanding of and reaction to the terrible abuse of minors. It re-iterates the “great sense of pain and shame”, that must be acknowledged by Church authorities. It notes the “very moving penitential liturgies in the cathedrals” held to address the issue of abuse within the Church and seek forgiveness from God and from victims.
Blueprint for Anarchy Among Priests etc.
There was also a selection [and keep in mind that this is the Vatican’s own story, meaning they are going to put the best possible spin on this], talking about “theological opinions at variance with the teachings of the Magisterium”:
But the overarching emphasis is on formation and communion. The formation of future priests, fidelity to Church teaching of current priests, religious and theologians. The Visitators observe that when in Ireland, they encountered “a certain tendency, not dominant but nevertheless fairly widespread among priests, Religious and laity, to hold theological opinions at variance with the teachings of the Magisterium ... this serious situation requires particular attention, directed principally towards improved theological formation. It must be stressed that dissent from the fundamental teachings of the Church is not the authentic path towards renewal”.Here cometh the crackdown: “So they propose a re-evaluation of the pastoral program, the reinforcement of structures of Episcopal governance over the seminaries and the introduction of more consistent admission criteria.” We’ll see how far that gets them.
For more information, see the larger report. And for you Roman Catholics who are inclined to think that we’re being overly-harsh with the poor, poor Roman Catholic hierarchy, this report is the one issued by the Vatican, just today.
"It’s always somebody else’s fault. That’s how come we can keep telling ourselves we’re infallible.
ReplyDelete"
Of course, because we're infallible in matters of faith and morals and we all know that how the apostolate treats the laity is not a a matter of faith or morals. [/sarc]
"Infallibility with respect to faith and morals" these days I think is confined to "that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory."
ReplyDeleteEverything else is NOT a papally-defined ex cathedra post-Vatican I dogma, and may be massaged like a wax nose to mean something that it is not.
And for you Roman Catholics who are inclined to think that we’re being overly-harsh with the poor, poor Roman Catholic hierarchy, this report is the one issued by the Vatican, just today.
ReplyDeleteOverly harsh? Mostly your reaction is pretty ridiculous, but it's par for the course around here on this topic. I think you're confusing "harsh" with "petty sniping".
Frankly, the news that the Church intends to crack down on theological opinions, among Catholics and priests, that are at odds with Church teaching is encouraged by me. Probably by you too.
But hey, maybe you think it's wrong that, say... those agitating for the acceptance of gay marriage or gay clergy may be penalized.
I'm sure when that day comes you'll be standing around saying, "Leave the church, you advocates of gay marriage, gay clergy, abortion rights and feminism! Turn your back on that vile institution, and join us Protestants, where you'll be accepted and welcome! You're right to dissent!" ;)
"But hey, maybe you think it's wrong that, say... those agitating for the acceptance of gay marriage or gay clergy may be penalized."
ReplyDeleteYou're trying to change the subject.
I would rather that those that permitted and enabled the clergy sex abuse scandal themselves be tossed out (starting with Cardinal Law). Instead the RCC used and is using a "run out the clock" strategy vis a vis statutes of limitations and the fact that many abusers are near or passed the end of life.
"Leave the church, you advocates of ...
ReplyDeleteThis would render Roman Catholicism the size of a pea. You can't have that now, can you?
On the other hand, you don't know what those "theological opinions" are, and the Vatican isn't saying. Such things well could be direct challenges to papal authority, such as the current and "widespread" understanding that the episcopacy was not instituted by Christ, as Trent taught, but rather was a late adoption of some pagan structures; and that the papacy was a usurpation of authority it didn't have. That's a pretty widespread understanding among more and more scholars of that period.
ReplyDeleteIn either case, why doesn't the Vatican come out and make a case for its own "theological opinions", instead of just asserting authority? My thought is, "because it can't".
How are "Church authorities" and the Vatican mutually exclusive when the highest Church authority *is* the Vatican?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, both Benedict XVI and John Paul II apologized personally for the actions of the whole church -- from the pope to the lowliest parish priest.
What I read here makes me happy: the Shepherd taking care of the flock, guarding against wolves.
That said, I agree with you, John, that some bishops should be more severely punished for their laxity or complicity.
"What I read here makes me happy: the Shepherd taking care of the flock, guarding against wolves."
ReplyDeleteMore like apologizing after the wolves make off with some of the sheep. Ho hum, more sheep where they came from.
History cannot be undone, alas. Now is the time for healing and the reinforcement of discipline and holiness, so that such a crisis will not again transpire.
ReplyDeletePhilip: How are "Church authorities" and the Vatican mutually exclusive when the highest Church authority *is* the Vatican?
ReplyDeleteYou missed what I am saying. I am repeating the Vatican website's own terminology. The point is, they are the same thing.
So, from the story, if you say "The Vatican" "acknowledges a great sense of pain and shame". Of course. Boo hoo.
But, what you don't see is, "the Vatican takes full responsibility for our official policies of the past which have given rise to an inadequate understanding of and reaction to the terrible abuse of minors".
And yet, in real life, it is Vatican official policies that have been fully responsible for "inadequate understanding of" the abuse of minors -- the Vatican itself has been the main force behind the cover-ups all over the world which led to the continuation of the abuse.
Anyway, both Benedict XVI and John Paul II apologized personally for the actions of the whole church -- from the pope to the lowliest parish priest.
You will always see stories of this nature: "We apologize for the sins of the children of the church". Always the meaning will be "We are sorry for the sins of someone else".
What you don't see, what you will never see, is, "'The Church' established policies that were harmful to children. We take full responsibility for this."
But that is what is most required. It is the first word from Christ: "Repent ..."
Do you understand what I am saying? "The Church" will never repent.
"History cannot be undone, alas. Now is the time for healing and the reinforcement of discipline and holiness, so that such a crisis will not again transpire."
ReplyDeleteThe real issue and root of this problem is that the RCC insists that obedience to the RCC is required of the faithful. While the small print disclaimer says "in matters of faith and morals", the apostolate in practical terms suffers nary a disagreement in any arena. When a crisis of "discipline and holiness" occurs in the apostolate, to whom does the laity turn? The hierarchy made clear that when it comes time to circle the wagons, the laity is on the outside of the circle.
EA,
ReplyDeleteYou're trying to change the subject.
No, I'm pretty sure this was in the OP. It just stings.
Yes, protestantism is where it's at if you are in favor of gay marriage, abortion, and more. Bugay snipes at the idea of the Church cracking down on dissidents in general. I'm pointing out that even Bugay would approve of what are very likely to be the issues cracked down on.
John,
This would render Roman Catholicism the size of a pea.
Perhaps, in your fever-dreams. And if it did drastically reduce the church?
So. Be. It.
But thanks, John, for letting us know where your priorities lie. Apparently, if cracking down on the proponents of gay marriage and abortion in your church would reduce the numbers too greatly, you'd pause. "Maybe we can compromise," Bugay would say. "We don't want to be like the Catholics." ;)
In either case, why doesn't the Vatican come out and make a case for its own "theological opinions", instead of just asserting authority? My thought is, "because it can't".
You're full of it. You think the only reason there are so many protestants (and yes, there are Catholics too) who back abortion, gay rights, and more - or better yet, who back heresies about Christ and God - is because conservatives haven't made their cases adequately?
You and I both know that, particularly on those political issues, the arguments don't matter for most people. Do you think the abortion and gay rights causes have advanced the way they have due to rational argument and compelling reasoning? If so, thanks for showing me you are either ignorant, dishonest, or flat-out deluded.
Do I even have to dig through this very site to find instances of advocating that some people be denied teaching roles or leadership roles in protestant institutions, because of the theological and even political ideas they advocate? Does anyone doubt I could pull up explicit examples?
As I said, John, you apparently mistake petty sniping for harshness. Yes, yes, I get it, you dislike the Whore of Babylon or the Black Pope or whatever. But when you're sneering at how those damn papists will actually crack down on dissidents, and how cracking down is just s'damn bad, you're exposing yourself as not particularly being a sharp thinker on this subject.
But whatever, you're on the internet. PZ Myers didn't build his crowd on reasonableness and good argument. You can use him as a role model.
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ReplyDeleteTo Crude: "I would rather that those that permitted and enabled the clergy sex abuse scandal themselves be tossed out (starting with Cardinal Law). Instead the RCC used and is using a "run out the clock" strategy vis a vis statutes of limitations and the fact that many abusers are near or passed the end of life."
ReplyDeleteSince you left this aspect of my post unaddressed, I'll interpret that as an admission that it is true. Thanks.
Crude, there is a reason why all of this sex abuse scandal stuff is critical.
ReplyDeleteThe Roman Catholic Church today, hierarchy and all (see Lumen Gentium 8) considers itself the \"universal Sacrament of Salvation\". That is, one no longer needs be a member of the church to be saved. Thanks to one's own "invincible ignorance" of the Roman Catholic Church (and there seems to be a very broad definition given to this), anyone may be saved just by *doing* the good things one's conscience prompts one to do. All the "grace" needed for this comes to the world simply because the Roman Catholic hierarchy exists.
This is not simply a case that there are sinners in the church. What we have here is perhaps the very most extremely sinful behavior [failure to repent] calling itself the one and only channel of God's grace for salvation in the world.
In the genre of "the big lie", perhaps a more ridiculous statement would have been for Hitler to have claimed that he killed all the Jews for their own salvation. But of course, Hitler never said that. So, among the most ridiculous "big lie" claims we have left, we see the Roman Catholic hierarchy, from the sex-abuser priests to the enabler-bishops to these dissembling popes, all claiming to be THE Sacrament of God's Salvation in the world.
"We see the Roman Catholic hierarchy, from the sex-abuser priests to the enabler-bishops to these dissembling popes, all claiming to be THE Sacrament of God's Salvation in the world."
ReplyDeleteYou fail utterly to grasp the meaning of these words, as well as the meaning of the Church.
It is as though you are fixated on a few flecks of mud on the steps of a glorious temple.
The Church is not simply the bishops, curia, and pope. The Church is not a static entity, a structure, a thing.
Rather, the Church is a mystical kingdom, a sacred body whose soul is the Spirit and whose mind is Christ.
As the Catechism explains, "The Church is essentially both human and divine, visible but endowed with invisible realities, zealous in action and dedicated to contemplation, present in the world, but as a pilgrim, so constituted that in her the human is directed toward and subordinated to the divine, the visible to the invisible, action to contemplation, and this present world to that city yet to come, the object of our quest."
Saint Bernard proclaimed ecstatically, "O humility! O sublimity! Both tabernacle of cedar and sanctuary of God; earthly dwelling and celestial palace; house of clay and royal hall; body of death and temple of light; and at last both object of scorn to the proud and bride of Christ! She is black but beautiful, O daughters of Jerusalem, for even if the labor and pain of her long exile may have discolored her, yet heaven's beauty has adorned her."
The Church is the fountain of grace.
She is the new garden of Eden, wherein man again walks with his Creator in friendship.
She is the Bride awaiting her beloved Bridegroom.
She is a spiritual feast open to all men and women: upon her altars, the Supper of the Lamb never ends!
The Church is Israel at prayer. She exists most truly during the Mass, which is the earthly complement of the heavenly liturgy, wherein all the choirs of angels, as well as the glorious saints, praise the Triune God. There is always a Mass being said somewhere, and in this way the Church constantly praises the Lord.
Again, the Catechism: "In the Church this communion of men with God, in the "love that never ends," is the purpose which governs everything in her that is a sacramental means, tied to this passing world. [The Church's] structure is totally ordered to the holiness of Christ's members. And holiness is measured according to the 'great mystery' in which the Bride responds with the gift of love to the gift of the Bridegroom.
ReplyDeleteThe Greek word mysterion was translated into Latin by two terms: mysterium and sacramentum. In later usage the term sacramentum emphasizes the visible sign of the hidden reality of salvation which was indicated by the term mysterium. In this sense, Christ himself is the mystery of salvation: "For there is no other mystery of God, except Christ."196 The saving work of his holy and sanctifying humanity is the sacrament of salvation, which is revealed and active in the Church's sacraments (which the Eastern Churches also call "the holy mysteries"). The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body. The Church, then, both contains and communicates the invisible grace she signifies. It is in this analogical sense, that the Church is called a "sacrament."
The Church, in Christ, is like a sacrament - a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of unity among all men." The Church's first purpose is to be the sacrament of the inner union of men with God. Because men's communion with one another is rooted in that union with God, the Church is also the sacrament of the unity of the human race. In her, this unity is already begun, since she gathers men "from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues"; at the same time, the Church is the "sign and instrument" of the full realization of the unity yet to come.
As sacrament, the Church is Christ's instrument. "She is taken up by him also as the instrument for the salvation of all," "the universal sacrament of salvation," by which Christ is "at once manifesting and actualizing the mystery of God's love for men."
The Church "is the visible plan of God's love for humanity," because God desires "that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit."
Protestantism, with its impoverished ecclesiology, is unable to fathom these spectacular realities.
Protestantism is ultimately a heresy of individualism, and individualism leads to death: there is life only in communion. "Communion is being." Hail Holy Trinity!
Protestantism is a creature of modernity, which despises mystery and cannot allow the Divine to operate in this world.
Catholicism insists that the cosmos is single-tiered: that God is even now among us, most especially in His Church!
How many vicious sins has the Church committed? Many! She is ever in need of reform, repentance, and discipline! Even now, there is so much work to be done, it boggles the mind...
But these evils stain only her flesh. They are not existential wounds. They constitute rashes on her skin, not cancer within her bones. They do not infect the heart, the wellspring of her mysterious divine realities!
God bless you and keep you. Have a great day! Hope the family is doing swell.
Philip, I would like to see you provide some official source (i.e., CCC, council, papal encyclical, etc.) that corroborates this statement of yours:
ReplyDeleteHow many vicious sins has the Church committed? Many!
Wherever you go, this statement will always be nuanced in such a way that the Roman Catholic Church is eschatalogically interpreted such that it is not "The Church" committing these vicious sins, but "her children" or some other party.
"The Church" cannot take responsibility for its own sins (and I count among these grave sins of doctrine as much as anything).
Philip said:
ReplyDelete"It is as though you are fixated on a few flecks of mud on the steps of a glorious temple.
The Church is not simply the bishops, curia, and pope. The Church is not a static entity, a structure, a thing.
Rather, the Church is a mystical kingdom, a sacred body whose soul is the Spirit and whose mind is Christ."
Steve Hays absolutely nailed the typical Catholic e-pologist's approach, most recently exemplified by Philip Jude, to reconciling the behavior of the RCC with its claims:
"Catholic epologists bifurcate The One True Church® into a phenomenal church and a noumenal church. They conveniently relegate all the bad stuff to the phenomenal church. That’s just a shell. A simulacrum.
No matter how bad the church becomes, that can never impinge on the real church. For the real church is an inner, ethereal, indetectible, unfalsifiable quintessence of one true churchliness.
The real church is a suprahistorical entity which requires no historical evidence commensurate with the scope of its historical claims. The real church is impervious to historical counterevidence. The real church is a timeless, spaceless, airtight ideal.
For instance, the True church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. However, under no circumstances should the marks of the True church be confused with concrete, identifiable properties.
It doesn’t matter how much actual disunity you have in the church of Rome. That can never count as evidence against the unity of the church. Rather, any degree of disunity, however, wide and deep, is shunted off to the phenomenal shell of the church. That can never penetrate the essence of what makes the church “one.”
Likewise, it doesn’t matter how unholy the Roman church may be in practice. However corrupt, in time and space, from top to bottom, that only pertains to the outer shell of the church. For the True church remains spotless underneath the accumulated layers of turpitude.
Even though no amount of turpentine will ever be able to peel away the accumulated layers of turpitude to expose the hidden holiness of the church, buried beneath centuries of corruption, the faithful know in their heart of hearts that at the inaccessible core of the church there resides a pristine essence of sanctity.
The True church is indefectible. But not for a minute should that be connected with the actual performance of the church. No matter how error-ridden the Roman church may be in the actual administration of its internal affairs, each and every declension, however large or small, is automatically reassigned to the accidental shell of the church, while the unseen substance of The One True Church® remains intact and inviolate."
I really can't improve on Steve's description, nor could I agree with it more.