When writers like Randal Rauser and Roger Olson deny that God ever commanded the execution of the Canaanites on the grounds that such a God would be evil, and when they contrast that with Jesus, what they’re doing is to repristinate the Marcionite heresy. There’s the evil God of the OT, exemplified by Yahweh, then there’s the good God of the NT, exemplified by Jesus.
At this point, writers like Rauser and Olson forfeit any claim to be Christian. They don’t believe in the OT God. They find the OT God morally repugnant. And this is despite the fact that Jesus and the NT writers treat the OT God as the one true God. The God of the OT is the God of the NT.
Writers like Rauser and Olson don’t believe what Jesus believed. They don’t believe what other NT authors believed.
They come to Scripture with a preconception of what God, if there is a God, must be like. When they don’t find what they’re looking for in the Bible, when they encounter depictions that challenge their preconceptions, they revile and deny the offending depictions.
"At this point, writers like Rauser and Olson forfeit any claim to be Christian."
ReplyDeleteHi Steve,
I don't have any argument against this claim.
I'd just like to raise a meta-analytic observation about this claim.
When you wrote that sentence, you were likely aware that there are many folks who would likely get riled and offended by such a statement.
And I don't believe that you offend people for the sake of offending people.
So would you agree that as you cognitively thought about how you worded that sentence or whether to retain that sentence that you were hoping that offended people would consider your larger argument that Rauser and Olson are behaving like Neo-Marcionites?
"They come to Scripture with a preconception of what God, if there is a God, must be like."
ReplyDeleteQuite the popular view in the Church today; western church at least.
Made me think of Rob Bell, and his preconception of hell, which is a preconception of God really.
Thanks for always writing/blogging the truth in love. It's quite refreshing. The posts I can comprehend that is.
Well, "...the Canaanites on the grounds that such a God would be evil, ...".
ReplyDeleteThey do not see the difference between God doing and being "evil" and God being "eternally sinless and Holy".
Here's a view from the Old and after, a view from the New:
Psa 10:13 Why does the wicked renounce God and say in his heart, "You will not call to account"?
Psa 10:14 But you do see, for you note mischief and vexation, that you may take it into your hands; to you the helpless commits himself; you have been the helper of the fatherless.
Psa 10:15 Break the arm of the wicked and evildoer; call his wickedness to account till you find none.
Psa 10:16 The LORD is king forever and ever; the nations perish from his land.
Psa 10:17 O LORD, you hear the desire of the afflicted; you will strengthen their heart; you will incline your ear
Psa 10:18 to do justice to the fatherless and the oppressed, so that man who is of the earth may strike terror no more.
...
1Pe 5:10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Wait a minute here! You mean to assert God is the source of all evil and then, by Decree He graciously restores, confirms, strengthens and establishes us after His devils work us over like we learn from the book of Job?
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."
Job 1:8 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?"
Yes, I suppose you do and did! :)
It makes one wonder what people like Rauser and Olson think the Second Person of the Triune One true and living God was doing while floodwaters were coving the earth, plagues were falling on Egypt, and the Amalekites and all their substance were being destroyed?
ReplyDeleteWas He asleep at the wheel?
Was He a conscientous objector?
In Christ,
CD
Steve, you'll love this Rauser article: http://randalrauser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Must-Hitler-burn-forever1.pdf
ReplyDeleteWas He asleep at the wheel?
ReplyDeleteWas He a conscientous objector?
He was plotting rebellion against the evil genocidal dictator Father. The Holy Spirit was too busy humming Kumbayah to care about all that.
Truth: So would you agree that as you cognitively thought about how you worded that sentence or whether to retain that sentence that you were hoping that offended people would consider your larger argument that Rauser and Olson are behaving like Neo-Marcionites?
ReplyDeleteI can't speak for Steve, but I take this to be an intra-Triablogue secret code communication to the new Triabloggers.
You see, "Rule #1" about blogging at Triablogue is that we can't be seen to be "nicer" than our host, Steve Hays.
So Steve embeds secret codes in his text, that appear to be "not nice" things, which are really a reminder for the newbies among us here that we need to be vigilant about observing "Rule #1".
No no no, John!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe FIRST rule of Triablogue writing is you do not talk about Triablogue writing.
The second rule of Triablogue writing is you do not talk about Triablogue writing.
What is the evidence that you present substantiating your charge against Roger Olson?
ReplyDeleteRoger says:
ReplyDeleteApril 18, 2011 at 7:15 am
The Old Testament also contains alleged commandments by God to commit genocide.
http://rogereolson.com/2011/04/17/capital-punishment-is-sin/#comment-12917
A.M. Mallett,
ReplyDeletethis is an honest question I would ask you to answer.
Can you open up your understanding of these verses?
Psa 2:1 Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 "Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us."
In your God view, what is God teaching us by those verses?
Being familiar with the exchange on Olson's blog and inerrancy discussions elsewhere on this matter, I believe Olson allowed himself to use an irrational argument in order to bolster his efforts to dismiss his conception of inerrancy. He may be knowledgeable of Arminian and Calvinist soteriology however he is not a noted apologist. I would have to have him unpack his thoughts in much greater detail regarding OT commandments and events before judging his position on these matters.
ReplyDeleteI certainly disagree with much of his social theological perspectives yet none of this would ever give cause to judge the salvation of another. It is simply not my place nor yours. To state he forfeits any claim to be Christian is to place yourself under the same standard of judgment you impose on him, especially since you have not likely conversed with him to gain a better understanding of his position. It is a poor reflection upon yourself at this point.
Nonetheless, thank you for the link to the discussion that brought about your commentary.