I've always heard the charge that the number of elect was relatively small compared to the mass of fallen humanity, but I thought the heavenbound group would somehow be larger than that!
Bell must be missing this verse from his Bible on Judas:
“While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.” (John 17:12)
Some humans think Hitler is no big deal, really. Nor Stalin. "I can forgive him, and try to get along, so surely God can."
That goes completely against the truth. Especially God's holiness and justice.
Jesus said to Judas, "You would be better off never being born." Now that is a statement that makes no sense for Bell's teaching. Bell is in grave error. He is a minister of righteousness, and so an angel of light. He needs to see the truth of God's justice. He needs to see how evil sin is; how wickedly evil sin is. Thanks for the post.
A universalist doesn't necessarily have to believe that any of those (of the morally repugnant variety) people would get into heaven as they are. They may well even be punished for what they did - just for some finite amount of time. Hitler, for example, wouldn't be in Heaven as an unrepentant bigoted mass-murdered - it would be a Hitler who had realized that he was wrong, repented and been forgiven.
What is the point of this? Do you know, that an atheist such as myself can simultaneously affirm "Rob Bell is an idiot", as well as that "many secular people were vile"?
I affirm most secularists are idiotically unaware of their own shortcomings. I wish more people were religious since I believe this improves behavior, but this does NOT prove that your worldview is true. The people that you show all have the exact same fate. After they are dead, it is if they had never lived.
Dahmer "accepted Jesus." We have to be careful to readily accept a conversion story (especially in a prison context). Indeed, God can save anyone. There is question whether there was genuine repentance for his murders.
Is it possible to have a description of who these people are? I think I know most of them, but not all. Thanks.
Starting from the top, moving from left to right:
* The apostle Paul * Augustine of Hippo * Thomas Aquinas * Martin Luther * John Calvin * C.S. Lewis * Billy Graham * David Martyn Lloyd-Jones * Gandhi * The Dalai Lama * Gautama Buddha * Muhammad * Confucius * Christopher Hitchens * Richard Dawkins * Karl Marx * Bertrand Russell * Adolf Hitler * Joseph Stalin * Mao Zedong * Pol Pot * Kim Jong-il * Osama bin Laden * Benito Mussolini * Hannibal Lecter (who, yeah, is fictional, but it was either him or Montgomery Burns, and Lecter seemed slightly more likely to repent and trust in Jesus)
Not many people know how C. S. Lewis castigated liberal Christians. In one of his letters to Malcolm collected in the book Letters to Malcolm (I forget the subtitle, but it was on the general subject of prayer), the very last letter of that collection is the one. It's interesting. The books back cover copy even sort of gives an anticipatory apology for it. Yet they kept it in.
Anyway, I hardly have to reference *that* to get C. S. Lewis off a list with Stalin and Pol Pot on it. If this is a joke it's not a very funny one.
Hm, this interrogative sentence lends further evidence to the aphorism that there are no intelligent atheists in the blogosphere.
Do you know, that an atheist such as myself can simultaneously affirm "Rob Bell is an idiot", as well as that "many secular people were vile"?
Stop the presses! This is breaking news. You're the first atheist I've come across in my many encounters and interactions with atheists who has claimed he has been able to hold more than one affirmation in his brain at a time.
I affirm most secularists are idiotically unaware of their own shortcomings. I wish more people were religious since I believe this improves behavior, but this does NOT prove that your worldview is true.
I sense your atheist powers must be growing since you've come to the conclusion on your very own that the main point of this post was to prove my worldview true. Doubtless you'll soon be able to shear off your atheist padawan braid and devolve to Babinskian and Loftusan levels of infidelity!
The people that you show all have the exact same fate. After they are dead, it is if they had never lived.
Ah, I see. Atheism by assertion. Interesting. Such bold, unwavering conviction must be so dazzling to behold that it even astounds and confounds the other fools rushing in.
Patrick,
ReplyDeleteI like your collage! Well done!
Man!
ReplyDeleteI've always heard the charge that the number of elect was relatively small compared to the mass of fallen humanity, but I thought the heavenbound group would somehow be larger than that!
Bell must be missing this verse from his Bible on Judas:
ReplyDelete“While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.” (John 17:12)
Thanks, Alan! If I have some time later on, I might modify it to include Judas Iscariot.
ReplyDeleteWell, if I am wrong and everybody goes to heaven, I guess I will have some apologizing to do as we are all in heaven.
ReplyDeleteBut if Rob Bell is wrong, and some go to hell, then what apology can he possibly make that will mean a Damn to those he misled?
Is it possible to have a description of who these people are? I think I know most of them, but not all. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteSome humans think Hitler is no big deal, really. Nor Stalin. "I can forgive him, and try to get along, so surely God can."
ReplyDeleteThat goes completely against the truth. Especially God's holiness and justice.
Jesus said to Judas, "You would be better off never being born." Now that is a statement that makes no sense for Bell's teaching. Bell is in grave error. He is a minister of righteousness, and so an angel of light. He needs to see the truth of God's justice. He needs to see how evil sin is; how wickedly evil sin is.
Thanks for the post.
Just for fun...
ReplyDeleteA universalist doesn't necessarily have to believe that any of those (of the morally repugnant variety) people would get into heaven as they are. They may well even be punished for what they did - just for some finite amount of time. Hitler, for example, wouldn't be in Heaven as an unrepentant bigoted mass-murdered - it would be a Hitler who had realized that he was wrong, repented and been forgiven.
Will Hannibal Lector not be in heaven because he's fictional or because he's a sociopath?
ReplyDeletePatrick, while you are at it adding Judas, you may want to add the gay serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer
ReplyDeletehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/JeffreyDahmer-StonePhillips.jpg
The same jeffrey dahmer who repented and became a christian in jail?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of this? Do you know, that an atheist such as myself can simultaneously affirm "Rob Bell is an idiot", as well as that "many secular people were vile"?
ReplyDeleteI affirm most secularists are idiotically unaware of their own shortcomings. I wish more people were religious since I believe this improves behavior, but this does NOT prove that your worldview is true. The people that you show all have the exact same fate. After they are dead, it is if they had never lived.
Samuel,
ReplyDeleteDahmer "accepted Jesus." We have to be careful to readily accept a conversion story (especially in a prison context). Indeed, God can save anyone. There is question whether there was genuine repentance for his murders.
Byron said:
ReplyDeleteIs it possible to have a description of who these people are? I think I know most of them, but not all. Thanks.
Starting from the top, moving from left to right:
* The apostle Paul
* Augustine of Hippo
* Thomas Aquinas
* Martin Luther
* John Calvin
* C.S. Lewis
* Billy Graham
* David Martyn Lloyd-Jones
* Gandhi
* The Dalai Lama
* Gautama Buddha
* Muhammad
* Confucius
* Christopher Hitchens
* Richard Dawkins
* Karl Marx
* Bertrand Russell
* Adolf Hitler
* Joseph Stalin
* Mao Zedong
* Pol Pot
* Kim Jong-il
* Osama bin Laden
* Benito Mussolini
* Hannibal Lecter (who, yeah, is fictional, but it was either him or Montgomery Burns, and Lecter seemed slightly more likely to repent and trust in Jesus)
I've replaced Hannibal Lecter.
ReplyDelete"I've replaced Hannibal Lecter."
ReplyDeleteWith Richard Dawson no less!
The depths of your depravity truly know no bounds, Patrick Chan!
C. S. Lewis? Really?
ReplyDeleteNot many people know how C. S. Lewis castigated liberal Christians. In one of his letters to Malcolm collected in the book Letters to Malcolm (I forget the subtitle, but it was on the general subject of prayer), the very last letter of that collection is the one. It's interesting. The books back cover copy even sort of gives an anticipatory apology for it. Yet they kept it in.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I hardly have to reference *that* to get C. S. Lewis off a list with Stalin and Pol Pot on it. If this is a joke it's not a very funny one.
Ah, sorry, misunderstood the image. I see, Bell is saying Pol Pot will be in heaven with C. S. Lewis and Calvin and so on. OK, I'm slow. Nevermind.
ReplyDeleteThnuh Thnuh said:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of this?
Hm, this interrogative sentence lends further evidence to the aphorism that there are no intelligent atheists in the blogosphere.
Do you know, that an atheist such as myself can simultaneously affirm "Rob Bell is an idiot", as well as that "many secular people were vile"?
Stop the presses! This is breaking news. You're the first atheist I've come across in my many encounters and interactions with atheists who has claimed he has been able to hold more than one affirmation in his brain at a time.
I affirm most secularists are idiotically unaware of their own shortcomings. I wish more people were religious since I believe this improves behavior, but this does NOT prove that your worldview is true.
I sense your atheist powers must be growing since you've come to the conclusion on your very own that the main point of this post was to prove my worldview true. Doubtless you'll soon be able to shear off your atheist padawan braid and devolve to Babinskian and Loftusan levels of infidelity!
The people that you show all have the exact same fate. After they are dead, it is if they had never lived.
Ah, I see. Atheism by assertion. Interesting. Such bold, unwavering conviction must be so dazzling to behold that it even astounds and confounds the other fools rushing in.
CD said:
ReplyDeleteThe depths of your depravity truly know no bounds, Patrick Chan!
I've been driven to the depths by the ire of the Truly Reformed!
I've been driven to the depths by the ire of the Truly Reformed!
ReplyDeleteEven the depths can't hide you from the gaze of the Magisterial Hairy Eyeball of the Truly Reformed!
:0)
CD:
ReplyDeleteEven the depths can't hide you from the gaze of the Magisterial Hairy Eyeball of the Truly Reformed!
:0)
Verily, verily, I fear it more than I fear this one.