Why do some Evangelicals convert (or revert) to Rome? Why are they deaf to the counterarguments?
In my observation, the most common reason is that converts are looking for something, and Rome offers them what they are looking for. (Or so it seems.)
They commence with a vague idea of what they want, then they shop around until they find it. And that’s why they are deaf to counterarguments. It doesn’t matter how solid the counterargument: if it’s not what they were looking for, it has no impact.
Converts to Rome flatter themselves into imagining that they have humbly submitted to God, but in reality they wind up in Rome because they find in Rome what they were searching for when they started out. Just like, if you have a hankering for ice cream, you will keep on driving until you “discover” a Baskin-Robbins. Your desire selects for your destination. The direction of the journey was a foregone conclusion. The quest ends right where it began. So the far-flung pilgrimage moves in a tight circle by stopping where it started. Their arrival is a grand anticlimax.
If you ask certain questions, then the type of question selects for the type of answer. Indeed, you only have ears for answers that answer your questions.
Of course, answers are only right answers to the right questions. Converts to Rome stop when they find the answers they sought. Unfortunately, they don’t stop to ask themselves if they were asking the right questions. They are easily satisfied with Rome’s answers because they are self-satisfied with their own questions. It’s not about finding the right answers; rather, it’s about finding answers that answer the questions of the questioner.
If your kitchen catches on fire, you can ask your wife when Lost comes on TV tonight, and she might give you the correct answer. Yet that’s not the most pertinent question to pose when your kitchen is on fire. A better question would be, “Where’s the fire extinguisher?”
So true, and on so many levels.
ReplyDeletePertaining to the religious facet, I'd say the same of hard-nosed Arminians, Charismatic/Pentecostal/Word Faith, Mormonism, Emergence, et al. Why listen to sound arguments that dismantle your beliefs when those beliefs are so suitable to your felt needs, pride, insecurities, etc.?
This self-centered, emotion-driven pattern is the fractal of fallen human reasoning, the hard-wired default of the depraved soul. We see it at work in everything from bass-akwards political ideologies to toxic codependent relationships to drug addictions to psychosis. The pathology of following the deceitful heart and lying self-talk on the road to "fulfillment" rather than following facts and the Spirit down the road of Truth.
Nice post, Steve.
Why do you presume that everyone who disagrees with your arguments is "deaf" to them? Pretty arrogant.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Steve, what Ryan said.
ReplyDeletePlease use a less arrogant phrase, like "invincibly ignorant".P0nt1f3x
Ryan Anderson,
ReplyDeleteSteve Hays didn't say his particular arguments were being ignored. He referred to "counter-arguments" in general.
(Btw. Are you the same Anderson who used to post on CARM?)
What's CARM? So probably not.
ReplyDeleteSteve asked: Why do some Evangelicals convert (or revert) to Rome?
ReplyDeleteIsn't the obvious answer; "Because they are apostates."?
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. - 1 John 2:19
Maybe my analysis is overly simplistic.
In Him,
CD
Hey Ryan-
ReplyDeleteIs there something wrong with being "arrogant"?
About thinking that you have a "superior status"?
Was all Israel wrong in thinking they were a "chosen people"?
Did you come to Triablogue to be carried about by "every wind of doctrine" (Eph 4:14)?
Did you come to the Triablogue wilderness "to see a reed shaken by the wind" (Luke 7:24)?
Why do you continue to do Ad Hominum rather than interact with the actual arguments?
You've got an empty fire extinguisher, Ryan.
"Your desire selects for your destination."
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that for some/many of these "deaf" converts to Catholicism they have a desire for an infallible human authority figure in their lives. I've seen this repeatedly in blog conversations with them. It all goes back to "authority" and how Sola Scriptura is woefully inadequate for them.
Although people hate being psychoanalyzed (which I usually don't blame) I would like to know if there's an accessible paper about the hungering mindset of people who need an infallible human authority in their lives.
It's also curious to me the qualitiative differences between the convert to Rome and most of the other Catholic laity. The convert to Rome is giddy about having an infallible Pope and an infallible Magisterium for their authority figures, while the vast majority of the other pew-sitters are cafeteria Catholics who are their own popes.
Go figure.
Every church says this. That people who leave it are somehow not being rational. They are being emotional or scratching some sort of psychological itch. On the other hand people who come into the church are doing it for purely rational reasons. I use the term church loosely because atheists would talk this same way.
ReplyDeleteSo the question of Catholic converts are about exactly that. How do we sort through all these self-serving claims? Where do you find truth in an environment where competing truth claims are strongly held to the point of provoking speculation that those who disagree have an unsound mind.
Randy said: "So the question [is]... How do we sort through all these self-serving claims? Where do you find truth in an environment where competing truth claims are strongly held to the point of provoking speculation that those who disagree have an unsound mind."
ReplyDeleteThe short answer is: Not by non-scriptural trust in an allegedly infallible human being.
Instead, you sort through the claims via faith in Christ Jesus crucified for your sins and raised for your justification on the third day as you work your way through the scriptures in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Do you deny, Randy, that you crave an apparently closer source of authority in which to trust? Or that you find comfort in the trappings of the mass?
Word verification: hearm and I don't mean to do any of it.
Why do protestants convert to Rome? Well, in my case, I was a happy protestant. I was sharing the Gospel with a Catholic one day, and she told me that Matthew 16 says Jesus established the Papacy. I had no wish to join the Catholic church, but it seemed I needed to comply with the verse and submit to the Papacy. I searched Protestant commentaries, but none seemed to explain away the Catholic view of that verse. I sadly became Catholic. (Now I am back to being Protestant, though.) Wish someone had written a book with cogent analysis of the verse and spared me the switch.
ReplyDeleteThe Good Shepherd brought you back home.
ReplyDeleteThe short answer is: Not by non-scriptural trust in an allegedly infallible human being.
ReplyDeleteOf course not. But what about a trust in an infallible God to work through a human being? Sort of like trusting in Matthew's gospel while not trusting everything else Matthew did.
Instead, you sort through the claims via faith in Christ Jesus crucified for your sins and raised for your justification on the third day as you work your way through the scriptures in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Sure. But how to sort through them. Based on what makes most sense to me? Perhaps there is another sort criteria. Like what fits best with historical Christianity.
Do you deny, Randy, that you crave an apparently closer source of authority in which to trust? Or that you find comfort in the trappings of the mass?
I have never understood the "trappings of the mass" thing. I actually liked my Sunday morning experience as a protestant. I even kept going to protestant services after I converted. Obviously going to mass as well.
As far as an teaching authority I can trust goes. Who does not want that? I always had that really. I just didn't have very good reasons for trusting my reformed tradition. I did trust it though. I had a hard time opening my mind to the idea they could be so wrong. But my ultimate trust is in God so letting go of a human tradition was possible believing He would show me something better. Did He ever!
Hi said:
ReplyDeleteWhy do protestants convert to Rome? Well, in my case, I was a happy protestant. I was sharing the Gospel with a Catholic one day, and she told me that Matthew 16 says Jesus established the Papacy. I had no wish to join the Catholic church, but it seemed I needed to comply with the verse and submit to the Papacy. I searched Protestant commentaries, but none seemed to explain away the Catholic view of that verse. I sadly became Catholic. (Now I am back to being Protestant, though.) Wish someone had written a book with cogent analysis of the verse and spared me the switch.
You may already be familiar with James White, but he has several helpful articles on Roman Catholicism, Protestants converting to the Catholic Church, and the like here. Alpha & Omega Ministries is a fine place to start.