JNORM888 SAID:
“I'm not saying I'm voting for Obama because I'm not. I'm a black Republican.”
That’s good to know.
“However, with that said. I think we should be sober in our judgement of condemnation and guilt by association.”
As you know, I already did a post in which I address that very issue.
“However, with that said. I think we should be sober in our judgement of condemnation and guilt by association. ___I just listenned to two of Rev. Writes sermons. The 9/11 one as well as the G.D. America one. ___And I think Shawn Hannity took his sermons out of context. __And the G.D. America one doesn't sound so bad when one saw how it was used ans why it was said in the way it was. ___I have the links to the sermons at my blog. Or one can go straight to Anderson cooper's blog as well as Roland's blog of CNN. ___You shouldn't allow some at Fox news shape the context of those sermons. Instead, listen to them for yourself and make up your own mind about the man.”
Feel free to put the following quotes “in context”:
"We started the AIDS virus. … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty."
"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."
"The government lied about Pearl Harbor. They knew the Japanese were going to attack. Government's lied."
"... what's going on in white America, U.S. of KKKA ..."
"Fighting for peace is like raping for virginity."
"Black men turning on black men – that is fighting the wrong enemy. You both are the primary targets in an oppressive society that sees both of you as a dangerous threat."
"We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaida is doing under a different color flag ... And guess what else. If they don't find them some weapons of mass destruction, they going to do just like the LAPD and plant them some weapons of mass destruction."
"God damn America – that's in the Bible – for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating us citizens as less than human. God damn America...”
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people."
"America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. … We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers. … We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi. … We put (Nelson) Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."
And right after 9/11: "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
[For the record, I pulled these quotes from WorldNet Daily.]
I’d add that if Fox News has a political agenda, so does CNN.
“The 9/11 one was clearly out of context. He was quoting an American Ambassador when he said that.”
And was he quoting the ambassador approvingly or disapprovingly? Favorably or unfavorably?
“Are his sermons political? Yes__Are they to the far left? Yes”
In some cases they seem to be to the left of Noam Chomsky.
“But if we are going to judge Obama for the views of his pastor then all far right christians who run for office will also be judged by the views of their pastors.”
I don’t see a problem with judging a politician, in part, by the views of his pastor if his pastor is an outspoken representative of the lunatic fringe.
And I’m not confining this to the far left. I would include certain segments of the far right, viz. Paul Craig Roberts.
If you follow my blog you’ll be aware of the fact that I’m an equal opportunity critic.
“Thus, one shold judge Obama on what he says and what he believes........not for what someone else believes.”
That’s overstated. As I’ve said, I think there’s plenty of reason not to vote for Obama quite irrespective of the Wright connection.
But, having said that, Obama is not a known quantity to the same degree as his rivals. He doesn’t have the paper trail of Hillary or McCain. So he’s something of an inkblot. People project on him what they want to see. As such, one potential key to his true beliefs is the company he keeps.
Let’s also remember that most politicians are not distinguished by their candor. They tend to deny or downplay any impolitic sympathies they harbor.
So it would be naïve to judge them only by public statements which they’ve prescreen with pollsters or focus groups.
Hillary is a perfect example of someone who almost never says what she really believes.
And don't forget that I did review Obama's speech on race in America. So I'm judging him by his own words.
Did you listen to the two sermons? Yes or No
ReplyDeleteIf not then how can you judge the man and those soundbytes accurately?
One sermon was the one he made the Sunday following 9/11 in 2001. It's about 35 minutes long.
The other Where he says "G.D. America" was done in 2003 and it's called "confusing God & Government" and it's about 40 minutes long.
You said:
"Feel free to put the following quotes “in context"
All of those quotes were not in the two sermons. I can only comment on the quotes that were in those sermons.
But you wouldn't have to ask that question if you listenned to the sermons.
You said:
"I’d add that if Fox News has a political agenda, so does CNN."
Greda on Fox News did a good job at trying to get to the context of those quotes. Most of the others on Fox News didn't seem to care.
At least CNN allowed people to hear "TWO WHOLE SERMONS" so that one could decide for themselves in regards to "some" of the soundbytes.
Yes they have a Bias but they allowed the public to have more acces to the context of some of that stuff. That's a plus and a step above Fox News in my book.
You said:
"And was he quoting the ambassador approvingly or disapprovingly? Favorably or unfavorably?"
Approvingly & Favorably
You said:
"In some cases they seem to be to the left of Noam Chomsky"
If you didn't hear the sermons then how could you know? I'm not saying your wrong.....I'm just saying how can you know for sure.....if you didn't hear the context of those quotes?
You said:
"I don’t see a problem with judging a politician, in part, by the views of his pastor if his pastor is an outspoken representative of the lunatic fringe."
Lunatic fringe? Who gets to decide that? The far left will call us(me & you) being part of the Lunatic fringe.....so who decides?
But any.....as far as Rev. Write being part of "the Lunatic fringe"... It would seem that way if all you know are the sound bytes. He doesn't seem like a monster if you listenned to the sermons. Those bytes don't seem so bad in there context ....but how could you and your fan base know? You all can't know.
If you are going to judge Rev. Write then Judge him by the context of those quotes. That would be fair.....and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
You said:
"But, having said that, Obama is not a known quantity to the same degree as his rivals. He doesn’t have the paper trail of Hillary or McCain. So he’s something of an inkblot. People project on him what they want to see. As such, one potential key to his true beliefs is the company he keeps."
If that's the case Then listen to his pastor in context. Or else it's "SLANDER".
You said:
"So it would be naïve to judge them only by public statements which they’ve prescreen with pollsters or focus groups."
True
You said:
"And don't forget that I did review Obama's speech on race in America. So I'm judging him by his own words."
Good, and that's what we all should do. If you were a pastor at a church and one of your members ran for office. And the far left took "some" of your sermons out of context so that the public would think he was too radical, then that would be the end of the christian right's influence in politics.
That's what's gonna happen if Obama's campaign goes down because of these sound bytes.
It will be the end for the christian right.....for we all will be "marginalized" by the left.
Have a Happy Easter/ Ressurection day
P.S. don't wish me mine for ours is the Sunday following the Jewish Passover.
JNORM888
JNORM888 SAID:
ReplyDelete“Did you listen to the two sermons? Yes or No__If not then how can you judge the man and those soundbytes accurately?”
i) When a man makes such outrageous statements, the onus lies on the speaker, and not on the listener, to explain himself.
ii) In addition, there’s the stuff on his church’s website—some of which has been pulled since the controversy began.
“All of those quotes were not in the two sermons. I can only comment on the quotes that were in those sermons. __But you wouldn't have to ask that question if you listenned to the sermons.”
Life is short. I have priorities. We need to be faithful stewards of the time God has given us.
So we make snap judgments from secondary sources. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s a practical necessity.
I have a right to form a provisional judgment on the basis of what I’ve seen and heard and read. I’m under no obligation to personally research every issue before I’m allowed to form an opinion.
I’d add that Rev. Wright could give a TV interview if he wants to put his own statements “in context.”
“Yes they have a Bias but they allowed the public to have more acces to the context of some of that stuff. That's a plus and a step above Fox News in my book.”
You keep excusing his statements because they were allegedly taken out of context, but you have yet to explain how, exactly, you think the context has a mitigating effect on his statements. What else did he say that somehow neutralizes the controversial quotes?
“Approvingly & Favorably.”
In that case he agrees with the ambassador, so he’s made his sentiments his own. How, then, does that mitigate the force of the statement?
“If you didn't hear the sermons then how could you know? I'm not saying your wrong.....I'm just saying how can you know for sure.....if you didn't hear the context of those quotes?”
Much of the time we don’t know “for sure” what we believe. And it would be impossible to know “for sure” everything we believe or act on.
I’m under no duty to know “for sure” whether his statements are as bad as they sound. This isn’t a court of law. Rev. Wright isn’t facing jail time. You’ve lost your sense of proportion.
“Lunatic fringe? Who gets to decide that? The far left will call us(me & you) being part of the Lunatic fringe.....so who decides?”
I get to decide for myself.
“But any.....as far as Rev. Write being part of "the Lunatic fringe"... It would seem that way if all you know are the sound bytes.”
No, not just from the quotes. From his black liberation theology.
“He doesn't seem like a monster if you listenned to the sermons.”
Now you’re resorting to evasive hyperbole. Whether or not he’s a “monster” is a red herring.
“Those bytes don't seem so bad in there context ....but how could you and your fan base know?”
Once again, what do you think is the mitigating context?
“If you are going to judge Rev. Write then Judge him by the context of those quotes. That would be fair.....and I wouldn't have a problem with that.”
What about the context of his belonging to a politically and theologically far left denomination?
“If that's the case Then listen to his pastor in context. Or else it's ‘SLANDER’.”
You simply beg the question by insisting that he was quoted out of context. You have yet to make good on your claim.
“If you were a pastor at a church and one of your members ran for office. And the far left took ‘some’ of your sermons out of context so that the public would think he was too radical, then that would be the end of the christian right's influence in politics.”
That’s predicated on the assumption that my sermons were quoted out of context. And that’s an argument from analogy minus the argument.
If my pastor were a member of the Aryan Nations, and I knew it, then that ought to be held against me.
I understand your points. I just don't think it's right to judge those sound bytes when the sermons(where some of those sound bytes came from) are online for all to hear.
ReplyDeleteI invited my friend Cruz to come over for he is more able to defend Rev. Write's comments.
Cruz's blog
http://cdero.wordpress.com/
If he comes over then you will have to deal with both of us.
Have a happy Easter
JNORM888
JNORM888 writes: "If he comes over then you will have to deal with both of us."
ReplyDeleteMe-Too anyone?
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm
Steve's already "dealt" with you. When are you going to respond to his most recent arguments?