In The Descent of Man Charles Darwin writes:
"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races."
In The Natural History of Religion David Hume writes:
"Look out for a people entirely void of religion, and if you find them at all, be assured that they are but a few degrees removed from the brutes."
Well now! It looks like if Charles Darwin is correct, and if David Hume is correct, then atheists had better be on the look out becuase they may be "exterminated and replaced" because they are "savage brutes."
But, it gets worse. Jehovah says, in Psalm 2:
1 Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against Jehovah, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bonds asunder, And cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens will laugh: The Lord will have them in derision. 5 Then will he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure: 6 Yet I have set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I will give thee the nations for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10 Now therefore be wise, O ye kings: Be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, For his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all they that take refuge in him.
I'd say things are looking pretty grim for the atheist, no matter which way you slice it.
Thanks Paul you just made my night.
ReplyDeleteLOL! Great point! I'm gonna probably put a link to this in my own blog.
ReplyDeletePaul, you certainly arranged these quotes in order of relative importance, in terms of the reliability/authority of the speaker. Finally getting it right.
ReplyDeleteNow correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the nation of Israel, as a whole, upset by a civil war only a few years after this was written, and then destroyed by the Babylonians (by God's own decree, or whatever) only a few years after that? So perhaps the "son" here isn't Jesus, or perhaps they pissed off Jesus before the incarnation?
It's kind of funny how being "in covenant with God" sure hasn't fared to well for the Jews throughout history, ain't it? All this "serving Jehovah with fear" stuff didn't turn the trick I guess...not enough trembling?
They annoyed the preincarnate Son. Remember, the Babylonian captivity and the dispersion were punishments for disobedience to the covenant. The trouble is that they did not serve Jehovah with fear, just as I am too often a poor, unfaithful witness, and for that reason am chastised by God. Like the time I looked to the bottle rather than God (I was not an alcoholic, I could stop and eventually did. I was only drunk in the evenings) in a bad spot a few years ago and wound up getting fired.
ReplyDeleteToo often Christians, and I include myself, do not serve God with fear and trembling, but serve God so we can get something nice in return, or just as a bit of witchdoctoring. God is not obliged to listen to us when we pray 'forgive us our sins' when determined to sin on.
Oh no! Atheism is doomed? That's it! I'm signing up at my nearest church to become a Christian! I'm so convinced now!
ReplyDeleteThe only reason atheism is still around, if Darwin and Hume are correct, is that atheism is religious. :-)
ReplyDeleteOf course atheism is doomed. Five minutes after an atheist dies they are no longer an atheist, no matter who you ask. For the atheist:
ReplyDelete'The paths of glory lead but to the grave.'
Gray.
And when the ivy has grown around the stone, who will there be to remember? The most ornately carved stone in the graveyard at Lamas was made of imported sandstone. It stands out even today, but the inscription can no longer be deciphered.
Forgive me, I live next door to a cemetery.
(oh, and the visual identification is tubmud, which made me smile.)
Hiraeth,
ReplyDeleteThat reminds me of something I wrote in The Outlaw, where the bad guy (named The Outlaw, amazingly enough) confronts one of the protagonists, Ted Broadway:
----
“What else is life but one cosmic game? You look for meaning in your puny, miserable existence, and so you dream up goals and desires. You say, ‘Maybe if I had just a million dollars, everything would work out fine. Maybe if I married the right woman, I could have a nice family. Maybe if enough people respected me, I might find something of value in this existence.’ But those are all shams. They don’t give you anything.”
The Outlaw stood, his fist gripped in anger around the handle of his Beretta, which he used to gesture at Broadway. “Life is nothing more than the haves verses the have-nots in a never ending struggle to see who can [screw] the other person out of the most before they each die. I simply short-circuited the entire thing and made up my own rules. And that is why you can never equal me.”
“Because you’re an anarchist? That’s so juvenile.”
The Outlaw shook his head. “No, no, no. Because I realize the truth about existence, reality, everything. I know the truth. We come from nothing. We will die and pass into nothing. And between those two nothings, we are nothing. In ten years, no one will remember what I’ve done here. In ten years, no one will care about the people I’ve killed. Do you still mourn for the people Ted Bundy killed? How much less so prostitutes Jack the Ripper killed! No, it doesn’t impact you because it’s not meaningful to your life. And since it’s not meaningful, then it is worse than non-existence. It’s an existence that doesn’t matter and that is your whole...life when you boil it down. Everything you could ever hope to gain from life is nothing but an illusion because it doesn’t last, you can’t take it with you...."
----
This is, of course, the only hope of the atheist. Even if you make it famous and into the history books so people remember your name forever, it's pointless. Does any atheist think Julius Caesar cares that he's in history books 2000 years after his death? Of course not. Julius Caesar doesn't care because he's dead.
Trying to force meaning into an existence that doesn't matter is all that an atheist can do. Frankly, I think that's why nihilism is the closest thing to a consistent atheistic worldview.
I DON'T KNOW IF ATHEISM IS DOOMED, but in the industrialized world (G-8 nations) a lack of interest in joining either a church or a cult or an atheist organization seems to be on the rise. In fact even in America there's a big conference I saw advertized in Christianity Today featuring many Evangelical leaders who have pointed out that an increasing proportion of today's youth don't seem interested in religion at all.
ReplyDeleteSee also the latest articles below concerning Australian youth and Spain. I've seen similar figures from other G-8 nations.
Australian Youth Follow the Secular Trend
Aug. 16, 2006
Less than half Australia’s young people say they believe in a god, and many believe there is little truth in religion, a new study has found. The three-year national study, a joint project between Monash University, the Australian Catholic University and the Christian Research Association, found many young people live an entirely secular life.
The study, The Spirit of Generation Y, found just 48 percent of those born between 1976 and 1990 believed in a god. Dr Andrew Singleton of Monash University, a co-author of the study, said they were surprised by the findings. "It’s well known that there has been a turn away from church attendance and participation in young people," he said. "But we thought there was going to be a move towards alternative spiritualities. There are still a number turning towards it, but not as big as you would have thought."
Religious identity will be among the questions contained in this year’s Australian census. We see the same effect in this census as in the UK census, when 72% of people said they were Christian, even though every other survey and poll showed this to be vastly over-stated. This was because of poor wording of the question.
The Australian survey found 20 percent of young people did not believe in a god and 32 percent were unsure. It also found just 19 percent of those who identify themselves as Christian was actively involved in a church (attending services at least once a month). More than 30 percent of Generation Y was classified as "humanists," rejecting the idea of a god, although some believed in a "higher being."
Dr Singleton said it was a trend that was likely to continue. "We live in a very individualistic and self-orientated society and I don't see a lot of things challenging that," he said. “One of the many predictors of whether we become religious is our parents, and unless there is a massive cultural shift, I see that the trajectory will continue as it is."
Spanish Youngsters Have Had It with Religion, Too
A poll of 1,450 young people in Spain shows that most believe that religion is of little importance and has no place in schools. The survey of people aged 15 to 29 shows that attitudes have changed radically since the era of the dictator Franco. Then, homosexuality was banned. Now gay marriage is legal, with 80 percent of those who were asked agreeing with the change in the law.
More than two thirds of those polled said they were in favor of abortion (legalized in Spain in 1985) and 76 percent said they approved of euthanasia "to help someone suffering from an incurable disease if they asked for it." A third declared themselves non-believers, with the majority of the remainder stating that religion had little relevance in their lives.
Although this will be good news for the socialist government of José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, it will cause yet more angst among the Catholic hierarchy who have traditionally held enormous power in Spain.
Edward, you are correct, and as your sources ,make very clear, the reason for this is that society is becoming increasingly atomised. Interest in religion and political involvement, signs of a vibrant community culture. In the past, if one was not religious, one felt the need to join with others who rejected religion.
ReplyDeleteThe old world, where everyone knew everyone else, is passing away with increasing rapidity in the west. It is rare now for a person to live their whole life in the same area. The idea of the job for life is in retreat. These days most people change jobs on average every two to five years. Most people will move house several times in their lives. Yet once families, even working-class families were known by the name of their house. It began with the divorce of the people from the land.
Most people in the British countryside only sleep there and perhaps spend weekends. No wonder any form of communal activity is one the slide. Most countries show high levels of belief in God, but often this is now an individual thing, not exercised corporately.
Society is dying, there is opening up a great gulf between the family/individual and the state. The intermediate agencies are dying, whether the PTA, the local branch of a political party, Debating Societies, scouts, etc. They are dying of apathy.
And we should all oppose this, atheist or Christian. A man can be attacked in the street and no-one will look, let alone step in. Without a strong society, only the strong will flourish.
There's a little village just outside Newport, between the city and the steel mill. There's an ancient church, isolated from its settlement. And in that graveyard there is a huge cross. The name on it is almost hidden by moss. Above the cross, just over the road, a hill rises to a gap between two clumps of trees. A great house stood there for centuries, beautified by many families. Now all those men lie in that graveyard, their house swept away, a few roses all that remains of its garden.
ReplyDeleteThese men, 'mighty men of deeds' all lie forgotten, the house they believed would be their eternal mnument swept away. Soon there will be no-one who remembers it.
And it is the same all over. Houses divorced from their families, the cottages sold to commuters, now beyond the reach of locals. The manor house, too often, has been sold, if not demolished, contents that took centuries to build up dispersed in a few days. The names of fields and houses are changed to suit the tastes of mere transient incomers. Each individual is greater than society, and so society is nothing.
And we want to be remembered, when we have killed memory? We want to be memorialised when as a society we have uprooted the landmarks? We do not stay in one place long enough to be remembered.
A man without a memory is not liberated, but incomplete, and so a society without its history is incomplete.
Hiraeth, reminds me of Shelley's old poem...
ReplyDeleteI met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteDo you really believe that by arranging two different authors in a certain fashion atheism is doomed? Can you imagine what would happen if atheists did this with Christian commentators over the years?
I think this is an argument on the level of TAG. The Reformed cult is certainly grasping at straws anymore.
Night
Somehow, Night, I assume Paul doesn't think one changes reality by arranging quotes. At least, I hope not. That would be silly.
ReplyDeleteOne does not doom anything by arranging quotations from authors.
Atheism is doomed because, as I observed, no atheist is an atheist five minutes after they die, no matter who you ask. One day, we can be sure, there will be no atheists, even if atheists are right.
Where then the intellectual satsifaction? Where the sense of superiority if all goes down to dust and to destruction?
I saw yesterday as I walked through the cemetery a great family grave, 'Thomas of Bronwydd, Pen-y-lan' Four sides. In a generation, they had gone from contractors to Barons Pontypridd. But the son never married, the tomb is incomplete. In two generations their name had vanished from the land.
And today there will be more and more incomplete tombs, single graves, forgotten.
Society is dying, the state rushing in to fill the void, with lawyers following close behind. All cultures are going down to the grave, to be replaced by a single Americanised culture, a thrusting fertillity cult that elbows out of its way all others. The weak go down, while the strong exhult themselves, even in supposedly Christian churches.
Sense of superiority? Perhaps you haven't spent very much time talking to the Lord's elect.
ReplyDeleteYou confuse intellectual satisfaction with comfort. It mat be a sobering thought that we are going to do someday, but that we are- in the spite of my desires.
This verse spoken by the Lord came to mind as I read some of the comments here, "However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" (Lk. 18:8). Are we supposed to be surprised when church attendance is down?
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, anon, while atheists are good at talking the humble talk, the propagandists for atheism are supremely bad at walking the walk. As are we all.
ReplyDeleteIntellectual satisfaction, like any satisfaction, breeds comfort. That is the danger. And it is a danger faced by us all in what is fast becoming a wasteland, where only the strong thrive.
It is too easy to speak of death when in the flower of life. If we die tomorrow, it will be fast. We will scarcely notice it. A moment of jarring pain, then release.
Yes, you will die, whatever you believe. According to your worldview, you will then be eaten of worms, your name will be forgotten, and who will care whether you lived unselfishly or swindleled your friends and family? If you sacrificed your happiness for the happiness of others then, according to your worldview, you were a fool, for your dust will be just the same as the dust of Blackbeard the Pirate or Genghis Khan. You will just have been less satisfied than they.
If your speaking to Christians has left you feeling that they believe they are superior, then rebuke them for me, won't you? I am superior to no-one, but for the grace of God I should have been dead these past two years. Dead and gone to hell.
Don't speak to me of the sobering reality of death. I'll tell you what the sobering reality of death is. A fatal dose of painkillers held in the palm of the hand. And the grace of God that breaks in, that holds the hand and shows hope.
'What's the good of living without hope?'
'It can be done.'
Yes, it can be done, to go down to the grave with all the world you worked for a failure and a wreck. All lives end in failure of one sort or another. The greatest man will lie beside the lowest, the atheist beside the Christian, the Tory beside the Socialist.
And what then? Where then the 'satisfaction' of atheism? Where then the evangelism of the atheist? Even in his own worldview, Richard Dawkins will not be an atheist after he dies.